Boowu & M9

[beoon]

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I would like to use my M9 with an existing Boowu copy stand (screw mount) that I already own.

Would I be correct to say that I need to buy a LTM screw to bayonet adapter and any Leica screw mount 50mm lens?

 

The other option is to buy a Boowu-M unit which would not require the screw to bayonet mount adapter,

but I seem to think that this would require a 50mm collapsible lens since the Boowu-M uses the bayonet mount on the collapsible section of the lens.

Although I already have the Boowu in screw mount which is the best direction to go?

 

Thanks

 

Alan

[luigi bertolotti]

Your considerations are right: BOOWU is, basically, a set of extension tubes tailored to the specific reproduction ratios one can achieve extending it "legs"; a standard screw to bayonet adapter allows to mount a M body onto those "tubes", using screw mount 50mm lenses on their front flange.

If you have a good 50mm in LTM (and the std. Elmar is such, expecially in the last "red scale" variant) I see no reason to search for a BOOWU-M / BOWUM: onto this one, you could use, probably as the best lens, a Summicron 50 with the lenshead unscrewed and fitted onto the UOORE adapter, which has at the other end the bayonet of the collapsible mount... it is similar to the UOORF which plays similar role for the SOOKY-M / SOMKY macro device (in my mind, they could even be identical... but having the UOORF only, I am not sure)

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[jc_braconi]

Your considerations are right: BOOWU is, basically, a set of extension tubes tailored to the specific reproduction ratios one can achieve extending it "legs"; a standard screw to bayonet adapter allows to mount a M body onto those "tubes", using screw mount 50mm lenses on their front flange.

If you have a good 50mm in LTM (and the std. Elmar is such, expecially in the last "red scale" variant) I see no reason to search for a BOOWU-M / BOWUM: onto this one, you could use, probably as the best lens, a Summicron 50 with the lenshead unscrewed and fitted onto the UOORE adapter, which has at the other end the bayonet of the collapsible mount... it is similar to the UOORF which plays similar role for the SOOKY-M / SOMKY macro device (in my mind, they could even be identical... but having the UOORF only, I am not sure)

 

I have used it with the M8 on an old catalog :

it works

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Edited December 19, 2010 by jc_braconi

[beoon]

Gents,

Thank you for your replies, I have had a look through the various LTM items I have available and I already own a Focotar 50mm f4.5 enlarger lens.

The lens in question has the code DOOCQ together with an extension tube DOORX, I believe this combination has the code DOOHF or 17581.

The extension tube seems to be permanently fixed to the lens, would this combination replace the need to buy a LTM lens?

It does fit the Boowu unit, but I am not sure if it gives the correct register, if it does then it would be ideal for the purpose as I am hoping to photograph and publish on the Forum some of the early Leica information from the 1920's.

Thank you

Alan

[UliWer]

Your considerations are right: BOOWU is, basically, a set of extension tubes tailored to the specific reproduction ratios one can achieve extending it "legs"; a standard screw to bayonet adapter allows to mount a M body onto those "tubes", using screw mount 50mm lenses on their front flange.

If you have a good 50mm in LTM (and the std. Elmar is such, expecially in the last "red scale" variant) I see no reason to search for a BOOWU-M / BOWUM...

 

It works with the adapter, though some of the adapters (Leitz ones) only fit very tightly on the BOOWU tubes - and not in the right angle, so you will have to adjust the paper or whatever else you want to copy.

[luigi bertolotti]

Gents,

Thank you for your replies, I have had a look through the various LTM items I have available and I already own a Focotar 50mm f4.5 enlarger lens.

The lens in question has the code DOOCQ together with an extension tube DOORX, I believe this combination has the code DOOHF or 17581.

The extension tube seems to be permanently fixed to the lens, would this combination replace the need to buy a LTM lens?

It does fit the Boowu unit, but I am not sure if it gives the correct register, if it does then it would be ideal for the purpose as I am hoping to photograph and publish on the Forum some of the early Leica information from the 1920's.

Thank you

Alan

 

Uhm... Focotar is surely good as a repro lens, but I share your uncertainess about correct focusing... I do not know if Focotar focuses to infinity with the focus plane at the same distance from the lens' flange (27,8 mm) as the normal Leitz lenses for cameras... after all it was made for enlargers...anyway, it's easy to verify - with or without the DOORX you quote (btw, in my 1961 catalog, DOORX/17585 is described as "adapter to mount Paxette lenses on Valoy 2 enlarger"... but Rogliatti gives a different description for the same item; DOOCQ/16781 is described by both as the Focotar in "repro" configuration)

Edited December 20, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[lars_bergquist]

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I have a BOOWU-M and I have used it on and off with both M8 and M9. Now am I completely wrong when I say that the only lenses that the thing works with, are the collapsible ones – 3.5 Elmar, 2.8 Elmar, and collapsible Summicron? Because it is the internal bayonet of the lens, the one at the end of the lens tube, that engages the adapter. I think this should be mentioned.

 

The rigid old man

[luigi bertolotti]

I have a BOOWU-M and I have used it on and off with both M8 and M9. Now am I completely wrong when I say that the only lenses that the thing works with, are the collapsible ones – 3.5 Elmar, 2.8 Elmar, and collapsible Summicron? Because it is the internal bayonet of the lens, the one at the end of the lens tube, that engages the adapter. I think this should be mentioned.

 

The rigid old man

 

Yup, seems to me it's exactly what Alan said in his first post... I added that there is the way to use also the uncollapsible Summicron if it's of the versions with removable head.

[giordano]

Yup, seems to me it's exactly what Alan said in his first post... I added that there is the way to use also the uncollapsible Summicron if it's of the versions with removable head.

 

That's right - but only the old "rigid" Summicron. I have a 1980s 50/2 (#3358***) whose lens head unscrews easily but has a different thread and can't be used that way.

[luigi bertolotti]

A link I found by chance...

using a BOOWU

[luigi bertolotti]

That's right - but only the old "rigid" Summicron. I have a 1980s 50/2 (#3358***) whose lens head unscrews easily but has a different thread and can't be used that way.

 

Gosh... this is a detail I did not know.... I supposed that the Summicrons in that s/n range have not a removable lenshead: how is it done ? Does it fit the usual Visoflex/Bellows adapters ?

[giordano]

Gosh... this is a detail I did not know.... I supposed that the Summicrons in that s/n range have not a removable lenshead: how is it done ? Does it fit the usual Visoflex/Bellows adapters ?

 

Here it is. I don't have a thread gauge here, but the thread appears to be 32.5mm diameter and about 0.75mm pitch. I bought a 17672U in the hope this would let me use the lens head on a BOOWU, but the female thread on that is only 28mm approx.

 

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[lars_bergquist]

I just dug out my BOOWU-M, and this is what I found:

 

The box contains two different leaflets. The first, in German, pertains only to the "BOOWU-plain", i.e. the screwmount version. The picture shows the gear with a Ic. It also illustrates what the text says about using the 50mm lenses: Das ausgezogene Objektiv wird in "Unendlich"-Stellung eingerastet und in den Gewindering eingeschraubt. "The extended lens is locked in the infinity position and screwed into the screw thread".

 

In other words, this is a BOOWU for screw thread cameras and lenses only – the text does not mention the M3 or any bayonet camera – and the lenses are NOT fixed by means of the internal lens bayonet. They are screwed into the extension ring just as in the camera itself.

 

But the rig in my box is a BOOWU-M. This is covered by a German-printed but Swedish-language second leaflet, mentioning the agent Brandt Optik in Stockholm. Useable lenses are "all Leica lenses f = 5 cm" with the exception of the Summarit-M. The photo shows the parts with the collapsible Summicron, collapsed, and a M3. Caption: "Summicron 5 cm with collapsible tube or Elmar 5 cm: In both cases the tube must be disengaged from its locking at infinity, collapsed and locked into the intermediate piece [the one that carries the legs and is attached to the camera bayonet - L.B.] with the three-lobed bayonet of the tube itself. In the case of the [rigid] Summicron with removeable lens head, this is unscrewed and then screwed into an extra intermediate piece with a bayonet, which is then attached in the same way as has been indicated for the lens tubes." The leaflet mentions that this other adapter, which makes it possible to attach the lenshead of the rigid Summicron in the same way as the collapsible lenses, is the UOORF. Case closed.

 

The first version rigid Summicron had a separately assembled lenshead which was then tested for accurate focal length. Lensheads were grouped into three groups, and married to focusing mounts for the focal lengths 51.6, 51.9 and 52.2mm. The focal length of the lenshead was scratched on the mount of the separate head. This lens was designed for having its head detached and used separately on various close-up and reproduction gear (bellows, Reprovit etc.) at the owner's discretion. Later 50mm Summicron versions can certainly be screwed apart – most lenses can! – but in later years, Reprovit and other users bought separate lensheads for this use. I would not disassemble a later Summicron!

 

The old man from the Age of the Reprovit II

[luigi bertolotti]

Well, Lars... if I were yoy I'd verify if Brandt Optik still exists... it's clear that they (or Leitz...) sold a BOOWU boxed as a BOOWU-M... , even if MANY years have passed, there are reasons for the customer to complain...

 

Btw... your leaflet confirms what I wrote before, that UOORF and UOORE are probably the same device.

Edited December 23, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[jc_braconi]

that UOORF and UOORE are probably the same device.

 

UOORE does not exist

 

If you use an Elmar 2.8/50 you will need a VTOOX, if you use a Summicron you will need a VRTOO ...

this are for diafragm setting easily when the lens is on some reproducing device some people know now why there are two grooves milled on the diafragm lens ring

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2010 by jc_braconi

[lars_bergquist]

Well, Lars... if I were yoy I'd verify if Brandt Optik still exists... it's clear that they (or Leitz...) sold a BOOWU boxed as a BOOWU-M... , even if MANY years have passed, there are reasons for the customer to complain...

 

Btw... your leaflet confirms what I wrote before, that UOORF and UOORE are probably the same device.

 

Brandt Optik went out of business decades ago. But yes, Luigi, the device in the box is in fact a BOOWU-M, and the Swedish-language leaflet refers correctly to a BOOWU-M. I had no experience at all of the screw-thread BOOWU (treated of in the German leaflet); the M was the only one I knew of.

 

So the anomaly in the box (which is also correctly labelled BOOWU-M) is not the BOOWU-M but the German leaflet. The package may be so early that it originally left Wetzlar with the leaflet for the screw-BOOWU only. Such things have happened before.

 

The moral of this business is: Do read the instructions! You may learn things you did not intend to learn!

 

The old man

[lars_bergquist]

UOORE does not exist

 

If you use an Elmar 2.8/50 you will need a VTOOX, if you use a Summicron you will need a VRTOO ...

this are for diafragm setting easily when the lens is on some reproducing device some people know now why the are two grooves milled on the diafragm lens ring

 

I have used my BOOWU-M with my 1960 collapsible Elmar 2.8 with full success without any such device. The aperture ring is easily accessible. But I seem to remember that I did use something like that on the Summicron v.3 lenshead that was on the Reprovit II I once operated. Here, the lens was above head level and less easy to reach. I used the contraption with a MD and a MDa. That was in the middle 1970's.

 

The old man from the Age of the Reprovit II

[beoon]

Gents,

Firstly, a big thank you for your contributions.

Following on from my original post I ordered a Leitz screw to bayonet adapter which arrived today.

I have just tested the M9 fitted to the Boowu unit via the screw to bayonet adapter.

The lens I used is as per my second post which is the Focotar 5cm f4.5 (code DOOCQ with extension tube DOORX).

I am pleased to confirm this set up works perfectly.

The lens DOOCQ on it's own is designed for the Reprovit unit but when coupled with the DOORX extension tube becomes an enlarger lens DOOHF or 17581.

After submitting my original post I conducted a bit more detailed research detailed below.

The Leitz designers where very clever in developing the new Leica camera into a full system camera, for instance they designed enlargers in such a way that the Leica owner could take photographs using the 50mm Elmar lens. The same lens could then be used on the Leica enlarger when screwed in and focused at infinity. The same lens could also be used on the Boowu unit to copy documents etc.

This compatibility was the reason that I reckoned the Focotar enlarger lens would work on the Boowu since it is replicating the 50mm Elmar.

The other reason that I was keen to use a Boowu unit in screw mount is that I am intending to photograph early Leitz literature from the 1920's and it is a fitting tribute to the Leitz engineers who always engineered system compatibility into their designs.

Although I doubt very much that they ever imagined that one day we would be using a Leica M9 digital rangefinder coupled with a screw adapter and screw mount enlarger lens to photograph Leitz brochures from the 1920's.

[luigi bertolotti]

Brandt Optik went out of business decades ago. But yes, Luigi, the device in the box is in fact a BOOWU-M, and the Swedish-language leaflet refers correctly to a BOOWU-M. I had no experience at all of the screw-thread BOOWU (treated of in the German leaflet); the M was the only one I knew of.

 

So the anomaly in the box (which is also correctly labelled BOOWU-M) is not the BOOWU-M but the German leaflet. The package may be so early that it originally left Wetzlar with the leaflet for the screw-BOOWU only. Such things have happened before.

 

The moral of this business is: Do read the instructions! You may learn things you did not intend to learn!

 

The old man

 

Sorry, Lars... I misread your post... Happy Xmas !!!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[luigi bertolotti]

UOORE does not exist

 

 

Sure ? Wiki Section (Deutsch) and an old catalog I have

 

"UOORE : Adapter zur Verwendung des Objektivkopfs des starren 50mm Summicron

 

am BOOWU-M, Nr. 16508"

 

Indeed, seems that both UOORF and UOORE were later re-coded as 16508... clearly the same item.