Summicron - M 35mm 1st Ver. - What's so special.

[ron110n]

I noticed that a chrome Summicron 35 ver 1 (Bayonet M Mount) at mint condition sell @ almost the same price of a new cron 35 asph.
What's so special about the lens signature.
Can someone post images from a cron 35 1st. ver or post links.
I'm curious and I've never seen images from the 1st. ver. before.

Is it just a classic / collectors value, or is there a performance value behind the old timer.

B&W will be most appriciated. =)
But colored is fine.

Thanks,
-Ron

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

Originally Posted by ron110n

I noticed that a chrome Summicron 35 ver 1 (Bayonet M Mount) at mint condition sell @ almost the same price of a new cron 35 asph.
What's so special about the lens signature.
Can someone post images from a cron 35 1st. ver or post links.
I'm curious and I've never seen images from the 1st. ver. before.

Is it just a classic / collectors value, or is there a performance value behind the old timer.

B&W will be most appriciated. =)
But colored is fine.

Thanks,
-Ron

First version 50/2.0 Summicron was the collapsible type, as far as I know. The rigid one that followed is slightly different. The expensive ones are usually over # 2.3 million and of the close focus type ( with close up attachment) made for the M2R. These are collector's items.
Both are slightly softer than the current 50/2.0 which some photographers (like myself) prefer when using Velvia 50, or the departed Kodachromes. The latest have higher contrast and produce snappier, "transparent" images.
No valid experience on M8 as I have just received the latter. Sorry, no scanner, so can't include images of old slides.
Teddy

[ddp]

Teddy - Ron is actually asking about the 35 Summicron.

[Moritz]

Ron,

the silver Summicron-M 35 1st. Version was made by Leica in Germany in the early 90s. At this time the chrome versions were more expensive than the black versions, so not many were sold and mostly to collectors only. I own one silver one of this beauties myself. The reason they are sought after is that they are even more compact than the new asph summicrons and they have a nicer bokeh.

Regards Moritz

[doubice]

Originally Posted by moritz_nienburg

........the silver Summicron-M 35 1st. Version was made by Leica in Germany in the early 90s........

Regards Moritz

This is not true. The first version 2/35mm Summicron was produced by Leitz Wetzlar in Germany, but also by Leitz Midland in Canada in about equal numbers. It was in production between 1958 and 1969, using an 8-element construction. Close to 20,000 lenses were made for the M2 and M3 cameras, not particularly rare.....The second generation lens which replaced it in 1969, was a 6-element design.

The first generation lens is sought after for its bokeh and its special 'fingerprint', which is quite different from the modern Leica lenses. Not everybody will agree on this - I personally feel that the generation 4 and the latest Aspheric version are better performers. Most of the $$$ you pay for the first generation lens goes towards its collectable value. I used one for close to twenty years, replaced it with a generation 4 lens and am happy.

All the best,

Jan

[Philippe D.]

Hi,

Originally Posted by doubice

This is not true. The first version 2/35mm Summicron was produced by Leitz Wetzlar in Germany, but also by Leitz Midland in Canada in about equal numbers.

It seems that 11935 pieces of Summicron 35 (SAWOM/11308) were produced from 1958 till 1969, but most of them in Canada, "Only a small number came out of the Wetzlar factory" (cf. "Identifying Leica Lenses" by G. Sartorius), and of course, this german version is well looked after by collectors.
Some 9557 pieces with spectacle (SAMWO/11108) has also been made for the M3.
Very few (~500) screw mounted lens (SAWOO) were made.

[doubice]

Phillipe,

That is correct - same information in my sources. When I mentioned "about 20,000 produced", I was including the 'goggled' M3 lenses too. Many of the M3 spec'd lenses originated in Wetzlar, as opposed to more of the M2 versions coming out of Midland, the ratio overall was about 50/50.

All the best,

Jan

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

Originally Posted by ddp

Teddy - Ron is actually asking about the 35 Summicron.

Sorry, I must have been dreaming!!! I also have a chrome and black versions of the 1st 35/2.0 Summicron which I like for very much the same reasons as the 50/2.0
The fingerprint is similar, i.e. softer, more pastel colours, less contrast

Teddy

[pilot]

I have the LTM version of the 35mm Summicron, made in Wetzlar according to the label. Some of the early M3 lenses were actually screw mount with a special adaptor to make them look as though they were bayonet mount. It's a nice lens but I much prefer the 35mm Elmarit-R (Mark II). I mounted them both on the M4 and shot a roll of K25, and you could really see the difference, with the Elmarit-R producing much more contrast. I did the same thing with 50, 90 and 135 but there wasn't any difference that I could see (not that it's any criterion).

Bryan

[thrid]

Nick Ut of the Associated Press shot the famous Vietnam War picture of the naked girl running from a napalm strike on her village with an M2 mounting a 1st generation 2/35 Summicron (Tri-X)

http://tinyurl.com/ywvvtk

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0008/ng1.htm

[tobey bilek]

It was a nice lens for it`s day. The images are like the DR/Rigid series in 50mm.

[wizard]

Originally Posted by tobey bilek

The images are like the DR/Rigid series in 50mm.

And those are outstanding even today.

Andy

[pilot]

I wouldn't agree with that. I have both lenses, 35 and 50 rigid, and the 35 isn't as good as the 50. That's why I prefer the Elmarit-R as it's on a par with the 50. I compared the 50 with the Summicron-R and couldn't see any difference, but there was a clear difference between the 35s.

Bryan

[Maciel]

Originally Posted by tobey bilek

It was a nice lens for it`s day. The images are like the DR/Rigid series in 50mm.

Yep, it was a nice lens for it's day.

The DR/Rigid is still a nice day today, the 1st G 35 'cron is not. It is absurdly overpriced if you want to use it as a lens and not collect it.


Andreas

[wizard]

Originally Posted by Maciel

... the 1st G 35 'cron is not.

And why would that be? Do you own this lens and speak from experience? Apart from its performance wide open, this lens still produces outstanding results, extremely sharp with nice colors and good contrast. I use it with my M3, as there is no other goggled 35mm lens, and also own the latest 35asph. Believe me, at anything from f4 you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference.

If you don't believe me, just have a look at the MTF-curves and you will see that it took Leica some time to match those with their later 35mm lenses.

Cheers,

Andy

[doubice]

Originally Posted by wizard

If you don't believe me, just have a look at the MTF-curves and you will see that it took Leica some time to match those with their later 35mm lenses.

Cheers,

Andy

Very true. I owned the first version, replaced it with the fourth version (pre-Asph) and apart from small difference in full aperture performance, the lenses are pretty close. For the $500.00 I 'gained' in the swap, I ended up with a 15mm CV Heliar and some other goodies....

Jan

[jc_braconi]

It was the time for the Summicron's line of lens 35, 50, 90...used next for the M2.

jc

[fuchs]

Originally Posted by wizard

..... I use it with my M3, as there is no other goggled 35mm lens, and also own the latest 35asph....

Andy

The Summicron is not the only 35mm goggled lens, there are also the two 35mm Summarons, in F/2.8 and f/3.5 with goggles for the M3. Even if not in the same league of the first version Summicron "8 elements", they are very capable lenses too.

OTOH, I agree absolutely on your remarks about the imaging quality of the 1st 35mm Summicron, and would add that at full and medium apertures it has a more pleasant rendering of the out-of-focus zones than every other Leica 35mm lens. Then there should be the mention of the famous "Leica glow", the retro look, etc... but these are very personal tastes IMO..

Best,

Ed

[wizard]

Originally Posted by fuchs

The Summicron is not the only 35mm goggled lens, there are also the two 35mm Summarons, in F/2.8 and f/3.5 with goggles for the M3.

Ed,

you are fully correct. What I actually wanted to say (but didn't do) was that there is no other f2 35mm lens with goggles . And I agree, the 2.8/35 Summaron is also a fine lens. I own one in screw mount, and use it with my screw mount Leicas as well as with a Bessa R.

Best,

Andy

[JGW]

Originally Posted by ron110n

I noticed that a chrome Summicron 35 ver 1 (Bayonet M Mount) at mint condition sell @ almost the same price of a new cron 35 asph.
What's so special about the lens signature.
Can someone post images from a cron 35 1st. ver or post links.
I'm curious and I've never seen images from the 1st. ver. before.

Is it just a classic / collectors value, or is there a performance value behind the old timer.

B&W will be most appriciated. =)
But colored is fine.

Thanks,
-Ron

Hello Ron,
I just caught your post while exploring around this 'User Forum' generally.
I think my 35mm F2 Summicron is a version 1. It was made in 1964, and I used it up until a few years ago professionally, and will be doing so again very soon mounted on my M8. It's really amazing that I'm able to use a lens made over 40 years ago on a contemporary camera body, but that's Leica Ms for you! Here's a picture link of it: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/dig...-selector.html
I bought it from a fellow student (the last I heard he was an associate member of Magnum) when I was in college in the 80s. The way I see things is this: I use Leica rangefinders primarily for their ergonomics. The fact that the optics are so special is just -and always has been for me- just a bonus to this. I still use this old 35mm lens because it just works so well for my needs. I've used it wide open on many an occasion and it always performed satisfyingly. I suppose the latest aspherical 35mm lenses are optically superior, but I think I'll still stick with my old lens. After all, it has all my pictures inside it now! Do you know there is even a club for people who use this lens? I discovered it a few days ago; I think it's Japanese, Here's the link: http://66.249.93.104/translate_c?hl=...%3Den%26sa%3DN
I can certainly post a few of my pictures on this thread if you like, taken with the lens on an M2.

Best wishes,
JGW.