Differences between IIIf base plates.

[Juan B]

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I have two Leica IIIF, a 1952 red dial and a 1951 black dial. Well, today I've noticed that the base plate of both are different. This is the base plate of the black dial:

 

 

And this is the base plate of the red dial:

 

 

The base plate of the red dial has a lever, but it doesn't have the base plate of the black dial.

 

Recently, I've bought a Leicavit, which is this:

 

 

The Lecavit doesn't have the lever that have the base plate of the red dial and also it's missing one of the angles that fits in the camera body.

 

It seems that the lever in RD base plate is for the right position of the film.

 

Can I use the Lecavit in the IIIf red dial?

How important is the angle that is missing in my Leicavit?

[iShutterbug]

Hi, Juan, welcome to the forum.

 

I have the same equipment you show here and I use them interchangeably on my IIIf RDSTand IIIg. As I understand it, the "foot" was designed to help support the film travel in the camera body. I have two base plates, one with 1/4 and one with 3/8 tripod screws so I can use with various old camera (everready) cases I find on eBay, one has the "foot" and the other does not (neither does my Leicavit) but I don't think about it and use whichever one I want. Perhaps the "foot" was for the later III bodies (which I have), but I would say if it fits--and you've loaded the film correctly--use it.

 

Don

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[Juan B]

Ok. Thanks a lot Don!

 

The body's bottom of the RD, have a "hole" that fits on the "foot" thats have the base plate. The bottom of the BD, doesn't have this "hole" for the food.

 

I don't worryed for use the base plate of the BD (without foot) on the RD, but I didn't know if I could use the Leicavit (without foot) with the RD.

 

I can use it and try.

[Xmas]

Hi Juan

 

The worst that will happen is the cassette will drop in its chamber (by up to 2mm) when the film falls out of the outer guide rails if the pressure plate is not pressed to the guide rails with enough force. The forks that engage the cassette for rewind should still be engaged and effective.

 

The non M leicas were built before the cassette (DIN) standard, so they are 2mm to large, commercial cassettes can drop, by 2mm and you can get photos which include the sprocket holes, across the top of the picture.

 

FILCA cassettes are larger so this does not occur.

 

I'd not 'damage' the lever wind to include the film pusher device

 

The missing light baffle should not cause a problem, a collector would haggle about price.

 

Noel

[Juan B]

Then I undestand that when I use the standart film with the IIIf RD (that the base plate have the foot), I don't have any problem, but if I use the standart 35mm film, with the BD (base plate without foot), the film must fall down, isn't it?

[Juan B]

Noel, would it be a good solution to fix a little piece of foam on the round piece, where the cassette is supported on the baseplate, for use the standart film cassettes? Then, the cassette could not go down.

 

Juan.

[UliWer]

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Then I undestand that when I use the standart film with the IIIf RD (that the base plate have the foot), I don't have any problem, but if I use the standart 35mm film, with the BD (base plate without foot), the film must fall down, isn't it?

 

I think many people use screw-mount Leicas which have no "foot" to stabilize films in modern cassettes, and very few use the the old metal Leica cassettes. Nevertheless occasions when the film goes wrong on its way through the camera seem to be rather rare. There are some famous photos by Henri Cartier-Bresson, where you see the perforation on the prints. This is perhaps the worst you should be aware of - so you might increase your chances to become famous as well by using a screw-mount Leica without the additional device for stabilizing the film.

[Juan B]

UliWer, then I'm more quiet.

 

I thought that I could only use the screw mount with Leica cassettes.

 

Juan.

[Xmas]

Hi Juan

 

Some people fit little springs in the baseplate latch to push the cassette. But...

 

If the film is held by the rails on the chassis by the pressure plate, then the cassette wont move .

 

I never do any thing, any foreign material in the camera is a risk for the shutter.

 

Normally I blower brush the inside of the camera, rare for me to clean a lens.

 

Noel

[Juan B]

Ok Noel.

 

I've not thought in this problem, that the foam can lock the shaft of the chassis and stop the film. Really it's not a good idea to put the foam.

 

Juan.

[tobey bilek]

I layer up some tape to make a washer and used that to support the film can in my 111C.

 

The 111F has the post to hold film up.

 

The best solution is definately the brass cassettes. Once you use these, you will never return to commercial film again.

[Xmas]

I layer up some tape to make a washer and used that to support the film can in my 111C.

 

The 111F has the post to hold film up.

 

The best solution is definately the brass cassettes. Once you use these, you will never return to commercial film again.

 

Hi Tobey

 

I can load 6x36 FILCAS for day leicavit them in a few hours (IIIc high serial number for winder) and then need to go to chemist shop... always carry scissors, and never have had a film slip out of rails, in forty years with a Barnack.

 

People do think the crons barndoor is quaint.

 

Noel

[swamiji]

I have just been looking into loading my own Cassettes, and here are my results.

 

FILCA - Leica SM without foot.(Early F's and before)

IXMOO - Leica SM with foot (Late F's, G's), M's (except M7,M8,M9)

Standard Cassettes - Leica SM with foot and all Film M's

 

I still need to figure out how to load and prepare them for use... but that's another thread.

[Xmas]

Hi Swamigi

 

FILCA or IXMOO will work in any Barnack, never had any problems with my IIIC and IXMOO, but you are reliant on pressure plate springs, holding the film in place.

 

Part way through M6 production the baseplate lock was changed so it wont operate IXMOO, An earlier baseplate should work, or a technician may have a spare lock to swap.

 

The only real problem with IXMOO or FILCA is removing the old film shards from the spool, before loading the next film...

 

Noel

[Juan B]

Really very interesting!

 

I knew nothing about the chassis of Leica. I'm learning very much.

[swamiji]

Hi Swamigi

 

FILCA or IXMOO will work in any Barnack, never had any problems with my IIIC and IXMOO, but you are reliant on pressure plate springs, holding the film in place.

 

Part way through M6 production the baseplate lock was changed so it wont operate IXMOO, An earlier baseplate should work, or a technician may have a spare lock to swap.

 

The only real problem with IXMOO or FILCA is removing the old film shards from the spool, before loading the next film...

 

Noel

 

Hmmm, Interesting. I was told that the IXMOO is 2mm smaller and had the same problem with the Barnack (pre-foot) as the modern film cartridge. I have an IXMOO, and have some FILCA coming. I will have to test, with my IIIa, and my IIIg.

 

Of course Leica as per there norm makes major changes mid-model... I am not surprised. Mid M6... but never the less on my M7, it won't operate...

 

I will pay close attention to the film shard problem.

 

Theory is nice, but practical experience is best.

 

Thanks

[Xmas]

Hi

 

Although I have not had problems with one IIf and two IIIc with IXMOO and commercial cassettes, other people have had e.g. HCB.

 

If you push the cassette completely into the chassis then the cassette will be held by the film in the film rails, if the pressure plate has reasonable spring tension. This works with commercial cassettes or IXMOO, so far.

 

The more nervous people use springs or other padding, too cautious for that myself. My IIIc's shutter is +35 years old, a new shutter is expensive.

 

I frequently air blast the bottom loaders with the camera upright to remove dust or film shards.

 

The M7 (& MP which uses the same castings) have chassis 'lumps' which will stop a IXMOO entering the cassette chamber. My M6 2425xxx '(circa 97 or 98?) has the later baseplate latch without the actuator for the IXMOO.

 

Some cameras wont accept the IXMOO cause they have been rebuilt with generic parts and not tested, e.g. a M4-2 of mine, needs latch plate on camera filed. The FILCA and IXMOO seem to be at the high end of the tolerance parameters.

 

I need to remove any external corrosion from IXMOO when they are for M2 as they are an interference fit if not clean, metal polish works wonders but needs to be removed completely afterwards, as it is an effective abrasive. A trace of olive oil passivates the surface afterwards sufficiently, as I will get allergy symptoms with mineral compounds.

 

If you need a label on the cassette use an area not in contact with the camera, note I try and avoid any foreign material i the camera.

 

Noel

Edited May 12, 2010 by Xmas
adverb problem

[Juan B]

Can somebody show me a picture after of a cut film by himself without the Ablon?

 

I try to cut the film as is drawing of the bottom plate of the camera, but I'm not sure that I'm doing it well.

 

How do you do for charge exactly 36 exposures into de FILCA cassettes? I have two marks that I can touch in the dark and I cut the film, before charge it.

 

For refill the standart cassettes with the 30m roll of film, I use a machine and it's more easy, but I think that I can't use this machine, for refill de FILCA.

[Xmas]

Hi Juan

 

I use the bottom of the camera diagram and 22-23 holes, starting from the 23rd hole with scissors, trying to avoid damaging the film in a way that might cause it to crack or tear. A tight corner is more difficult to cut, unless you have an ABLON.

 

I use a daylight loader and load 40 frames, this is close to 36 usable exposures with my loader, the IXMOO will hold more then 45 frames of modern film but the plastic Patterson development tank spirals wont do much more than 37-38, so I always trim the leader and a few inches on loading a spiral, but I shoot blank frames at the beginning as well!

 

There are two types of daylight loaders, those with a rectangular cross-section and those with a tear drop cross-section, all the tear drops I've seen will actuate the IXMOO or FILCA, or Canon, Zeiss, Nikon & FSU cassette base plate locks, none of the square section would.

 

You can still use a square section loader but after you load the cassette, you need to open the loader in the dark room to close the cassette. With the proviso that the cassette does not rotate to scratch the film...

 

Noel

Edited May 13, 2010 by Xmas
proviso

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[Juan B]

Hi Noel,

 

Thanks for your answer.

 

Sorry, I don't understand what do you want say about the "rectangular cross-section" of the... loader?

 

There are two types of daylight loaders, those with a rectangular cross-section and those with a tear drop cross-section, all the tear drops I've seen will actuate the IXMOO or FILCA, or Canon, Zeiss, Nikon & FSU cassette base plate locks, none of the square section would.

 

You can still use a square section loader but after you load the cassette, you need to open the loader in the dark room to close the cassette. With the proviso that the cassette does not rotate to scratch the film...

 

I have this loader, for the standart cassette:

AP PHOTO INDUSTRIES DISTRIBUIDORES FOTOGRAFICOS

 

I think that I can't use it with FILCA.

 

Juan.