Stupid to use Fuji Provia 100F slide film at night?

[A miller]

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I am planning to shoot the NYC Halloween Parade next week with my M3 and fully expect to have to shoot pretty wide open given the dusk/night conditions. Assuming I would need to shoot at f1.4-f2, does slide film make sense? I will also be using Portra 400, which I'm sure will work nicely. But given the dynamic colors at the parade, I was thinking that I might be able to get a unique rendering from slide film.

 

But 100 ISO is awefully low. This can be dealt with my tweaking my approach with wide open shooting. But will the slide film be too unforegiving and sensitive to exposure?

 

 

Thanks in advance to all you experts!

 

--Adam

[TomB_tx]

Events outdoors under street-type lighting can have a wide brightness range, but subjects in the bright areas under the lights can be effective, allowing the surroundings to go black. In college in the 1960s I even shot some night activities (like snow-statue carving) under incandescent lights on Kodachrome 64. Of course subject movement can be a problem...

Start by metering close up so the dim surroundings don't overexpose the highlights.

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[A miller]

Many thanks for the insights, Tom.

[stunsworth]

Colour balance could be way off due to the artificial lighting.

 

Fuji C41 film used to handle mixed lighting very well, but I don't remember ever shooting much E6 under similar circumstances.

 

As mentioned earlier, be careful with your metering.

[ufa]

Hi, I recommand the CineStill Xpro C-41 800 Tungsten. I used this film at Night and it Works great.

Uli

[A miller]

Thanks, Uli. CineStill is a new one for me. Anyone else tried it?

[CalArts 99]

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Thanks, Uli. CineStill is a new one for me. Anyone else tried it?

 

fwiw, I've used it quite a bit in its original packaging (with an Eclair ACLII) Kodak Vision3 500T 5219/7219 16mm Color Negative Silent 823-2530

Yes, it's motion picture film designed to be developed as ECN-2 process film (available in single perf 16mm, 65mm, and of course in 35mm.)

 

It's a tungsten balanced film that can also be used in mixed light/daylight (and at different speeds) but one has to gel lights accordingly to get the color temps they desire, etc.. From what I've been told, this particular reseller buys it from Kodak and somehow has been able to remove the rem jet backing (chemically?) so that your local lab won't come and kill you after you've dropped it off as a C-41 process film. In other words, it's supposedly safe for C-41 process (although it might be up to your lab's discretion as to process it or not.)

 

Anyway, it's a film that works well in mixed lighting if you don't mind some possible surprises after you see it developed (unless you have carefully filtered the light, e.g., color correction gels depending on light source.) But as a negative film, you would be able to do some post process corrections, so probably no big deal there. It does have quite a bit of latitude (exposure and grain) which makes it popular with cinematographers. And I'm not sure if a C-41 developing process versus ECN-2 (plus whatever they've done to remove the rem jet) would change any of its native properties (?)

 

btw, here are the specs: KODAK: KODAK VISION3 500T Color Negative Film 5219/7219

Edited October 27, 2013 by CalArts 99
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[A miller]

Many thanks, CalArts, for the insights. I will look into this. It may be a little late to get in time for my shoot this thursday, but it seems interesting for future reference. Best, adam

[philipus]

I guess with a slow film like 100 you could get nice effects by metering for the brighter parts in the image and "lift them out" of the darker surroundings. Still, if it were me, I'd use a faster film, something like Portra 400 pushed a stop or two.

 

Fuji does note that Provia 100F can be pushed two stops so that may be something to consider. I haven't tried it myself. My experience is with Velvia 50 which I used for years, pushing it consistently one stop. That gave very saturated and contrasty images, which I liked. If 100F behaves similarly when pushed I am wondering how the results will be in darker settings.

[sblitz]

calarts99 -- interesting about using this particular cine film, who repackages it into 35mm casettes?

[CalArts 99]

calarts99 -- interesting about using this particular cine film, who repackages it into 35mm casettes?

 

It may be Kodak's 5230/7230 instead of the 5219/7219. (?) That stock is less expensive and was introduced more recently (2011.) Apparently Kodak claims it's best for TV productions produced on film; the 5219/7219 has better grain and shadow details for large screen projection. (?) So to be honest. I'm not sure what stock they are repackaging, but it's definitely cine film. Sold by Freestyle, Cinestill calls it an 800 ISO film (both film stocks are very pushable.) Cinestill 800 ISO Tungsten Xpro C-41 Film | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

 

We used to use cine film in school (cheap.) It was easy to get re-spooled film in 35mm cassettes around Hollywood and Burbank and process the shorts at cine labs in ECN-2. But overall, I'd prefer to just use standard C-41 still film. For E6 I'll use Provia 400 and filter for the lighting if necessary.

[sblitz]

thanks, i will order it and experiment. i understand needing the 85b filter for daylight, but since i have my developer scan a 20mb tiff file can't i just change the wb in capture one or lightroom?

[CalArts 99]

thanks, i will order it and experiment. i understand needing the 85b filter for daylight, but since i have my developer scan a 20mb tiff file can't i just change the wb in capture one or lightroom?

 

Yes, and usually to where it will be okay. Before the days of hybrid film/digital we could use 5000K balanced C-41 film under tungsten light since we could fix it pretty well with dichro enlargers. E6 was a different story and why they made tungsten balanced E6 film (160T, 320T, 64T, etc., is no longer available.) But today we can also fix E6 film in post. But sometimes it's off to where it you can't quite correct things perfectly and can be difficult. Best to use filters/gels if you can, but not always necessary; depends on subject matter, lighting mix, etc..

 

The only reason this tungsten balanced film exists today for still photographers is because it's cine film.

There were tungsten balanced C-41 films in the past:

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[A miller]

This has sufficiently sparked my interest that I placed an order for a few rolls. Unfortunately, the US supplier is out of stock until next month, so i won't get to try it out at this Thursdays NYC Halloween parade (which I will be shooting via a press pass).

[AlanG]

I guess I'm a day late here. Well 100 ISO is 2 stops faster than 25 ASA that I used to shoot. Tough at dusk unless using a tripod or flash.

 

You'll find most outdoor lighting is not tungsten but is sodium vapor, mercury vapor or similar discharge type high efficiency lighting. They have a very narrow range of color. So that combined with any color in the sky at dusk will be the source of your illumination. You can scan and correct it pretty nicely if you have good PP skills. I do this all of the time on architectural exteriors. Some colors will never show up very well under these lights.

 

Here is what I commonly find. The effect of the sodium vapor light starts taking over once the sky gets fairly dark. Before that one has just some local unevenness in the color. These were shot digitally but it was similar when I shot film and scanned.

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Edited November 2, 2013 by AlanG

[A miller]

Thanks, Alan. Very interesting pictures.

 

To close the loop on this, I thought I'd share the results of my evening and night shooting experience at the 2013 NYC Halloween Parade in the Village. I used my M3 and 50mm lux asph. I shot almost exclusively wide open at 1.4. Below are samples of my results with the Fuji Provia 100F slide film. I pushed this film TWO stops in the development. They came out as many predicted with the blacked out background (in the case of the night shots) and high contrast due to the pushing. But I had no choice. And no meter. I was totally winging it, much of the time fighting the rain and the varying light intensities. In the night shots, I found myself shadowing behind someone with a large patch of strong light on top of his video camera, trying to take shots of subjects that he paused on. Low tech for sure; but I do like the consistency of colors that the slide film produces. I'm sure that 99.99% of the other photographers had much better light due to their flashes and high iso. But I must say that I would take my film camera again next year, although I may purchase one of those light patches and wear it on my head like a cole miner

 

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This exposure was tainted as a result of a light leak that was caused when I tried to replace the film from my M3 in the rain while the camera was inside my zipped up jacket.

 

I took a few rolls of Portra 400 and Ilford Delta 3200 the highlights of which I'll post not he Street Photography forum in due course.

 

Thanks again to all who have shared thoughts on this thread.

 

Best,

 

Adam

[sblitz]

looks great to me from the perspective of using the camera to convey a sense of where you were as opposed to reporting it. why i prefer film in the first place..thanks for sharing. ps personally i never liked fuji color, but i do like what you posted.

 

best

steve

[A miller]

Hi Steve - many thanks for your remarks. I, too, generally will prefer Kodak to fuji. But this fuji slide film has really grown on me, even for street photography. I'll post some of the results from the porta 400 when I'm finished digitizing and we can compare...thanks again. Adam

[hamey]

Leicas and film simply made in heaven.

 

LONG LIVE FILM, IT'S STILL THE BEST.

 

Ken.

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[A miller]

Leicas and film simply made in heaven.

 

LONG LIVE FILM, IT'S STILL THE BEST.

 

Ken.

 

Right on, Ken! .