Older version of the M7

[AbbeyFoto]

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Hi guys,

 

Got myself into a bit of pickle with M7s again, though it looks like it will be resolved. The issue surrounds identifying whether the M7 has the new DX system and MP finder. The owner was uncertain so contacted Leica UK who contacted Leica in Germany. The information received was as follows.

 

"Leica are "very confident" and they can say with,

"99% certainty", that my M7 DOES have the new DX

reader and MP finder. The factory at Solms, told

Leica UK that those models with serial numbers

2885- onwards were fitted with the newer parts. ...

Whilst he did stress that

they cannot provide 100% confirmation without

physically inspecting the camera, as far as their

records are concerned, it does have the new parts."

 

Leica UK rang me to confirm this was the information they gave to the owner. An inspection of the camera clearly reveals it does not have the new DX system; can't speak to the finder. I guess this is an old nugget of an issue. A lesson learnt - only rely on a physical inspection of the camera and be wary of claims based on serial numbers.

 

Anyway my question: is anyone in a position to report on the relative reliability of the two DX systems? I had a lot of problems with a previous M7 with the old DX system and eventually I had to let it go.

 

Chris

[jplomley]

I've been using a pair of M7's with the newer DX system and MP finder upgrade for about three years now. Absolutely zero problems. Fantastic workhorse cameras that just get the job done.

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[Rolo]

Chris,

When Leica introduced the MP finder to the M7 they promoted it with a new box with an orange band. As shown here. Around 285xxxxxx, I'd want to see that box. In fact I was surprised when I came across a 300xxxxxx and the band wasn't there, so it's not conclusive, but a bloody good indicator with the early numbers.

 

The DX reader is easy to check for, but the older system did work well for some. Leica would change it free of charge if faulty, but that offer may have lapsed.

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[christer]

I never shoot at box speed anyway, but one advantage of the optical dx reader is that it makes it easier to remove the film cartridge from the camera than was the case with the old reader that needed to be in physical contact with the cartridge.

[Xmas]

Hi

 

I'd a been real suspicious of anyone who was unaware if a camera had the rfdr image spot white out and the mechanical DX reader, and had to ask Leica service, for both.

Not on the basis that he/she might have neen talking up the price but what else was he/she unaware of.

Are the viewfinder windows hard coated, i.e. are they coloured like a lens?

 

Noel

[peter_n]

I don't think the offer has lapsed, I'm still reading reports of Leica upgrading from the mechanical pins to the optical reader at no charge. You also get a free system check & adjust while they have the camera dismantled. The number 2885+ has been knocking around for years and from what I recall it's pretty unreliable. I'd push for the free upgrade, apart from the reliability it's really nice to take the bottom off and have the film canister drop out rather than having to lever it out as christer just pointed out.

 

How's Stockport doing BTW? I grew up in Heaton Moor...

[tgray]

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I've had no problems with my M7 with the new style DX reader. Had it for 2 years. It's easy to tell if it has it with visual inspection.

 

The finder upgrade is apparently tough to determine unless you open up the camera, the box states it, or if it's just plain new enough to know it has it.

[Eisemann]

The M7 with flush windows has the upgraded finder while the early non upgraded finder is on the M7s with slightly recessed windows.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Eisemann

[lincoln_m]

My black chrome M7 2943xxx has MP (blue coated) rangefinder window but with old pin type DX reader. The coating etc works very well, better than my old M6TTL which I replaced with M7. But the old M2 isn't a bad RF window either.

 

I have M7 set to 400 (TMAX 400 , Provia 400x) to avoid the DX error / metering error I sometimes get. I'll get around to sending it to Leica next year after the new London office have settled in. Sad to hear the MK workshop closed.

 

Regards, Lincoln

[hilm3]

My M7 is number 288501X. It has the old mechanical DX reader. I think it has the new MP finder, but I am not sure. No issues with flaring for me, though. I can make my M6 classic flare easily, but not the M7.

 

It is sitting in a box next to me waiting to go off to New Jersey (and then Solms, I suppose) for the Optical Reader upgrade. Also, disturbingly, the camera needs new leatherette. The leatherette is peeling at the corners from the rear door. If you look closely, it is not cut correctly - the covering is slightly bigger especially at the corners than the space where it fits on the cover. The covering on the battery cap is also cut too big. Weird, I know.

[hlockwood]

Chris,

When Leica introduced the MP finder to the M7 they promoted it with a new box with an orange band. As shown here. Around 285xxxxxx, I'd want to see that box. In fact I was surprised when I came across a 300xxxxxx and the band wasn't there, so it's not conclusive, but a bloody good indicator with the early numbers.

 

The DX reader is easy to check for, but the older system did work well for some. Leica would change it free of charge if faulty, but that offer may have lapsed.

 

My M7 has S/N 28847xx and came with neither the MP finder nor the optical DX reader. I had them upgraded at Solms.Harry

[AbbeyFoto]

Chris,

When Leica introduced the MP finder to the M7 they promoted it with a new box with an orange band. As shown here.

 

Rolo,

 

I have used this test in some of my searches but unfortunately the orange band only claims the finder is new. My concerns are with the DX system. My guess is that it was relatively easy to adopt the MP finder system into M7s but the new DX system had to be a new component. I can imagine they created cameras with new MP based finders but old DX systems and this maybe the source of the confusion over serial numbers. If Leica were responding to feedback their focus would depend on the nature of the feedback - was the need for a new DX system based on sticky film cannisters and/or instability of the DX system?

 

Creating new components may in itself create as many problems as it solves. Maybe I have been unlucky but I can note that I have been burnt with M7s with both old and new DX systems, hence my question about the relative reliability of the two DX systems. Needless to say both cameras were second hand I guess I am asking which DX system is most likely to be a lemon?

 

Chris

[samuelphoto]

Leica in New Jersey is in the process of swapping out at NO CHARGE my mechanical DX reader for the optical version right now. Should have it back this week, after about 4-5 weeks (they were waiting for parts). I'm also getting an overhaul at the same time; really anxious to get it back.

 

As for the finder, I assume it does not have the MP finder. However, I have a MP and have never noticed a difference to be honest. I think my M7 finder is just fine.

[tgray]

Rolo,

I can imagine they created cameras with new MP based finders but old DX systems and this maybe the source of the confusion over serial numbers.

 

I think the 'confusion' over the serial numbers arises from the fact that the two upgrade (MP finder and new DX reader) didn't happen at the same time as far as I know. The 2885xxx number that I've heard was in relation to the finder upgrade being factory installed. I've never heard a number quoted for factory installed new style DX readers. Of course my info might be off.

 

I would think the new style DX reader is more reliable. I've never had a problem with mine. It's also the new style; Leica is taking out the old ones because they at least think the new one is superior.

[budrichard]

"Leica is taking out the old ones because they at least think the new one is superior."

 

Leica is changing the mechanical to optical because the mechanical system will eventually fail if not sent to them for that reason in the first place. I'm two for two in that department and both have been changed for my M7's.-Dick

[pico]

Will Leica change the ISO reader for used (not warranteed) M7s? How much might it cost?

[tgray]

Will Leica change the ISO reader for used (not warranteed) M7s? How much might it cost?

 

That seems to be the case. Just send them an email and ask though.

[andybarton]

Solms did mine out of warranty a couple of years ago and dId a CLA at the same time. No charge was made.

 

And I got a year's warranty thrown in.

[lincoln_m]

Wow! Andy, Leica MK must have dropped a grand for that. Range Finder £200, DX £200, CLA £100, Warrantee £500. No wonder they were going through a dodgy patch financially in 2007-8, but I guess you did buy the M7 new unlike cheapskates like myself who can no longer afford Leica new prices and make do with used since the Euro went from 1.5 to 1.2 to the pound and they just keep increasing the prices.

 

Somehow I don't expect the new Mayfair team will be so generous to my used M7 as they have congestion charges etc to pay for and high office rates. We shall see.

 

Next year with VAT = 20% I'll be selling myself on street corners just to buy Leica accessories. (£35.50: Who gave you the 50p? .... They all did! I know the old ones are the worse ones)

 

In 2005 I had the chance to buy a 35 f1.4 asph chrome for £1100 from Bob Whites but as I only had lust for it not the need for it I didn't buy. Now it would be worth £2500 and new version is £3400. But it was too heavy and f1.4 is rarely needed, but a beautiful piece of engineering none the less.

 

It looks like 2885xxx is the correct turning point for the MP style Rangefinder from our unscientific survey. Don't know about the DX reader though.

 

Regards, Lincoln

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[andybarton]

They didn't do the rangefinder and the warranty cost them nothing.

 

And MK didn't do anything - it went straight to Solms.

 

And mine cost me a grand, mint, used, from a dealer. Today it would cost me about £1,600+

 

I'm not complaining in the slightest

 

If your M7 needs the DX reader changing, send it straight to Solms.