Color film for B&W prints?

[Doug A]

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Every once in a while I'll be shooting B&W film and come across a subject that will only work in color. I've considered carrying a second body loaded with color film but it finally dawned on me that since I scan my negatives and print them on an inkjet I might be able to use color film for everything but think of it as B&W film for the obvious B&W shots and as color film for the obvious color shots. I have a roll of Kodacolor Gold 400 in the M2 right now as an initial experiment but I thought I'd ask if anyone else has found color negative film to be a viable alternative to BW400CN or XP-2 for B&W prints.

 

(I've tried scanning some of my older color negatives and converting them to B&W. They're OK but when I shot most of them I deliberately avoided the kind of light and shade that make for good B&W photographs. I tended to seek out flat lighting.)

[pico]

Sure, go for it. The better image editing programs have some extra help for converting from color to B&W. Just removing all the color (de-saturating) doesn't quite do the trick because of how colors are digitized. You might be surprised by what you can do with color to B&W. (Photoshop hint: Image - Adjustment - B&W .... or when you are more confident you can get into the Channel Mixer and color curves.

 

Here is a quick and dirty sample of the default output of Photoshop's easy conversion to B&W mimicking standard contrast filters.

Edited October 4, 2010 by pico

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[Pindy]

The grain visibility is very different on color films, I find, for the same ISO rating. I think you could probably get some cleaner B&W shots if you got good at channel mixing, Silver Efex Pro, LR or ACR B&W tools, etc just due to the smooth grain of color print film (portra looks good). It would be nice not to have to sacrifice color to have "good" B&W when you want it.

[jsrockit]

If you are thinking of using color film for B&W, you may want to think of going digital (use RAW choose later color or B&W).

 

That said, many of the famous street photographers of the 50s and 60s experimented with color and then printed from those negs in B&W (per a lecture on street photography at the ICP in NYC).

[adan]

Traditional darkroom silver printing from color negs is a pain (requires panchromatic paper and working in total darkness) - but with scanning, anything is possible.

 

I've tried it myself, more for the fact that color negs work well with Digital ICE dust removal, and silver negs don't. (Not a factor if you are already using C-41 "B&W" films).

 

But be aware that color neg film usually has a bit less acutance (edge sharpness) than silver B&W film - the image is formed by dye clouds with soft edges rather than hard-edge grains. It is the trade-off for the "smooth grain" Pindy mentions.

[earleygallery]

You're doing the best thing, trying it out for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

I either shoot C41 colour neg, or silver B&W film. Colour neg does give you the option to end up with a colour or B&W shot, but I think it also risks making one a bit lazy. I like the discipline of shooting - and therefore thinking - in B&W terms or colour.

 

I also like playing with Duo and Tri tones in Photoshop.

[rhysgill]

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There has been a lot written about the benefits of using colour neg. film for conversion to B&W digitally. Your experiments will illustrate if this works for you.

 

If you are using photoshop you could try the following settings under the channel mixer on a copy of the scan. Check the monochrome box and under the R-G-B channels type 25-39-36 for Agfapan 25 // 28-41-31 for FP4+ // and my favourite, 25-35-40 for Tri X.

 

Use levels (gamma slider) and curves accordingly for contrast and tonality adjustments.

 

Lightroom 3 has brilliant control for B&W conversions once you get used to them, and of course there are very many alternative conversion methods including bought software specifically for the purpose.

 

My channel mixer method is quick and easy if you are in experimental mode. Good luck.

 

Dyfrig.

[tgray]

If you are happy with it, then sure, go for it.

 

Personally, I use B&W film when I want B&W because it has a unique look (grain, etc.), is easier and cheaper to process for me, and is easier to print in the darkroom.

 

If you are using only BW400CN and XP2 Super for B&W, then the grain and processing factors are not as relevant. Though a film like BW400CN is going to be have less grain than any ISO 400 color film (and most ISO 100 films). So there *is* a trade off...

[Doug A]

Last night I spent an hour reading Martin Evening's Lightroom 3 book at Barnes & Noble while I waited for my wife. He describes at length the various ways to convert a color image to B&W. He doesn't make it sound like fun. On the way home afterwards it occurred to me that with B&W film this work has already been done for me by the scientists who developed the panchromatic emulsion. I'll play around a bit with the experimental roll of color film I had developed at Walgreen yesterday, but right now my inclination is to stick to B&W film for B&W prints.

[Doug A]

For some reason I thought the Kodacolor Gold film I shot in the M2 was ASA 400. I just looked at the box. It's ASA 200. I should probably try another roll, properly exposed, to make it a fair test. That said, the results with the underexposed roll are still pretty good.