Fine scratches on 35mm Summaron

[Guest JoanMarianne]

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I have acquired a 35mm f3.5 Summaron made in 1953. The torch test shows a lot of fine lines on the glass, chiefly on the interior elements. The point is that these do not seem to have a noticeable effect on images, which is of good contrast, with a pleasing individuality. I had thought of having the lens cleaned but this might actually lead to the loss of this individual character. Does anyone have similar experiences?

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[Guest JoanMarianne]

......on reflection, this picture gives a better idea of the lens' performance.

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[richam]

Are the fine lines straight or zig-zag a bit? If the latter, it might be fungus damage. This could lead to damage to your other equipment. Otherwise, I'd keep shooting as long as you are satisfied with the results.

 

I have the f2.8 Summaron, and keep it on my M2 most of the time. It's a great lens with a classic Leica look, although there are no scratches on it. Here's an example I posted recently: Tram Expressions

[Guest JoanMarianne]

......they are straight or slightly curved; it does not look like fungus.

Edited February 10, 2010 by JoanMarianne
spelling

[UliWer]

The Summarons - 3.5 as well as 2.8 - seem to have this "issue" regularly. Many users see those "scratches" on the rear elements though everybody I know confirms that it does not affect the quality of the results. Though one would need a perfect example with no scratches at all to see if there is a difference, but I fear you won't find them. What I know is that especially the 2.8/35 is an astonishing good lens in spite of those "issues".

[Xmas]

Scratches are only a small fraction of the lens surface <1%, fog might be 50% or more.

 

You would probably only notice fog contra jour scratches never..

 

Dont worry be happy you ned to go to an asph to get detectably better performance, and it will probably flare more.

 

But it is sad even the aron is >>£. I normally use a cv f/2.5 or Canon f/2 LTM. together cheaper than an aron in nice condition

 

Noel

[tobey bilek]

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My mint one was soft at 2.8, better at 4.0, sharp at 5.6. I have slides blown to 40" wide from this lens that are outstanding.

 

I traded mine to my son for his 35 3.5 Summaron screwmount which I like better. I have a 35 2.0 first version that is about the same as the 2.8 summaron except it sharpens by 4 instead of 5.6.

 

My advie is find a later version 35 2.0 for a little more and you will be happier.

 

The Pics posted all are very soft and lack contrast. I have no idea of your scanning equipment or skill in using it, but if the negs themselves match what I see here, do NOT buy this lens. It is generally impossible to evaluate a lens based on an internet pic, but assuming this is the best the lens will do, it is totally unacceptable.

 

Internal scratches mean an unskilled repair person has had it apart to "clean" the internal elements and he had no idea what he was doing and damaged the lens beyond repair.

Edited February 10, 2010 by tobey bilek

[Guest JoanMarianne]

The shots were just quick snaps, I suppose - hand held at 1/60th; and my scanner is not the best. I will try the lens with some transparency film. that should be a definitive test.

[kevinc77]

Hi there,

 

New here and haven't really found out how to open a new thread, so I thought I might post it here.

 

I have an apparently quiet rare Summircon 1:2/50 Screw mount rigid lens, which unfortunately has been wrongly cleaned. The lens now has small kinda flaky spots on the surface.

 

Is there any way to get rid of them or any repairman which might be able to save it ???

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, love to get this beauty up and working again!!

 

Greetings from Switzerland

[Xmas]

Hi Kevin

 

If you navigate to the page which shows a list of the threads in 'film forum' at the top left of this list there is a new thread button, push that button.

 

The leica lenses can be really difficult to clean internally as the individual items can be impossible to separate, Leica Solms is near to you but very expensive, an ex-Leica repair person is the best compromise.

 

If the spots are on the outside surfaces buy a new pack of q tipe (cotton waste on sticks), pour some tap water through a coffee paper, dab the end of cotton in water so it is just damp and dab the cotton at an isolated spot for 5 mins then wipe sideways, gently like you were cleaning a butterflys wing and it needed to fly again.

 

If the problem wipes you seed to spend time removing each item the same way, if it does not remove ship to ex-Leica repair person...

 

Do not work near the edge of the lens, with more then damp cotton, as water will capillary and this would mean you got to send off immediately.

 

Sorry

 

Noel

[tobey bilek]

FocalPointLens.com

 

John Van Stelton can recoat lenses. I warn you this work is not cheap. Someone in Russia by the name of Oleg also recoats. You need to just sent the elements, not the lens to him.

[Guest JoanMarianne]

Toby Bilek is right....I sent the lens to a repairer and he says it may have been disassembled earlier in its life and the cleaning marks are, indeed, on the inside elements. He may be able to clean it to a useable state without having to regrind and polish; I await his recommendation. The latter option is not financially viable. Apparently some early coatings turn to a fine powder under certain conditions. This suggests that one should use uncoated Leica lenses or lenses made late enough to ensure that they have a hard coating. Does anyone know the dates of manufacture which should be avoided? I still do not see the point in having a Leica camera and not using Leica lenses. I have a 1958 rigid Summicron F2 (successfully cleaned) and a fourth version 28mm Elmarit-M from 1992. (Nice, of course, but the aluminium with black paint finish seems less substantial, and the paint is flaking in a miniscle way to leave some tiny white spots; although, of course, they do not affect the image, merely the resale value!).

Edited February 12, 2010 by JoanMarianne
Fact correction/spelling wrror

[Xmas]

Hi

 

leica lens coatings - Photo.net Leica and Rangefinders Forum

 

My belief was that lots of 50 lenses were soft coated internally and hard coated only on the outside surface, Nikon and Canon (as well as Russians) used hard coating as all the German patents were freely available as war reparation, although I don't think this applied to the Japs, who ignored this fine point.

 

Some lenses (not just Leitz) are prone to internal fogging (misting really) and if not cleaned quickly this can etch the glass micro polish so that the lens is useless. The optical glasses are not like window glass.

 

The modern coatings are nearly as good as frying pan non stick, but some of the modern glasses are so poor that they need the coating almost immediately after the final polish is done.

 

It is the modern glasses that make the modern lenses so special, e.g. the very high refractive glass that are molten at low enough temperatures to be poured into a ceramic (aspheric) mould.

 

If you have a surface recoated the surface needs to be micro-polished again to provide a secure key for the coating and it is quite difficult to retain the same radius, if not the lens is not the same as new...

 

It is very difficult to get an antique in good condition. Some of the aron's should be ok the f/3.5 was a conservative design, the f/2.8 was more state of art, more risk of glass problems.

 

If cleaned up it is a nice compact lens, if you want stellar contra jour performance Leica do have the modern f/2.5s. I'd wait a couple of months and try an borrow a different lens...

 

Myself I have CV LTM lenses for my LTM rangefinders that I'll also use on the Ms, used to use a Russian J12 as well, ok but it does not work with the M5 or M6 or later meters, and it wold not fit some of my LTMs, so I gave it away it was so cheap. I do have a 35mm lux and Canon LTM lenses from the 60 that each give a different picture, on color film. It is like do you want your pastels Dutch master or Turner.

 

I have sat beside a tripod and shot nearly the same cloud scene with several lenses, a nice way to spend 15 mins.

 

One of my '65 approx lenses seem to be soft coated internally judging from scratches, that Leitz works people managed to do during routing service.

 

Noel

 

.

[Guest JoanMarianne]

Thanks, Xmas; so, it seems that lenses from the Seventies on are the safest bet, apart from earlier types that were never intended to be coated anyway. (I have a 1937 Summar that is virtually pristine). Actually, I may have sounded elitist about Leica lenses. My idea is to have the option to to use a Leica lens for whatever I want but I also have examples by Minolta, a Jupiter 8 and a fascinating Industar (if I read the Cyrillic correctly) 61. As the famous David Bailey said in a recent interview, "Perhaps they have the illusion that a camera takes a picture, not a photographer".

[Xmas]

Well before you buy you need to look through the lens with a flash light behind the lens shining into it.

 

But lots of people especially with digital cameras have an old lens and a new lens, for the different effects, and Cosina do some of their modern lenses either multi coated or single coated, since they found out that they sold as many single coated!

 

There now are options for a Cosina Voightlander or a 'Cosina 'Zeiss' or a modern Leica lens, it must be hurting Leicas bottom line. Many people complain about the build quality of the CV or Zeiss ZM lenses, and sell mmedately, some like.

 

On a camera outing in coffee shop break one of the digital (M8) people borrowed each of my lenses in turn, pixel peeking at edge of the m8 frame, he only liked one of the lenses I had that day.

 

But HCB, Eugene Smith et al used '60s lenses...

 

Cameras are like 'male ' jewelry?

 

Noel

[Guest JoanMarianne]

......and Eugene Atget only ever used a wooden stand camera with a Rapid-Rectilinear lens until his death in 1927, producing contact prints on albumen paper. His work will remain with other eternal Greats in the history of photography. And one does not need to go around with a lens in front of a computer more powerful that that which was used in the moon landings, to make pictures. Still, whatever turns you on, as they say. Photography should be fun.

[rulnacco]

FocalPointLens.com

 

John Van Stelton can recoat lenses. I warn you this work is not cheap. Someone in Russia by the name of Oleg also recoats. You need to just sent the elements, not the lens to him.

 

Erm, you are probably actually thinking of Gevorg Vartanyan from ARAX Foto. He used to do re-coating very cheaply (and well, according to feedback). Unfortunately, as the Arsat plant he employed for this work sold all its glass making and polishing equipment, he no longer does it.

 

I know, because I e-mailed him to inquire about it, and he told me directly what had happened.

 

You might try calling Malcolm Taylor, the legendary UK Lecia repairman, depending on where you are. He re-coats Leica lenses...I'm probably gonna get him to do my ancient rigid 5 cm. Summicron one of these days. You can ring him on +44-1568 770 542.

[Xmas]

Erm, you are probably actually thinking of Gevorg Vartanyan from ARAX Foto. He used to do re-coating very cheaply (and well, according to feedback). Unfortunately, as the Arsat plant he employed for this work sold all its glass making and polishing equipment, he no longer does it.

 

I know, because I e-mailed him to inquire about it, and he told me directly what had happened.

 

You might try calling Malcolm Taylor, the legendary UK Lecia repairman, depending on where you are. He re-coats Leica lenses...I'm probably gonna get him to do my ancient rigid 5 cm. Summicron one of these days. You can ring him on +44-1568 770 542.

 

So will CRR luton

Repolishing & re-coating a SUMMAR f2 front optic

Noel