bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I use an Eye One to calibrate my monitor, and it creates an icc profile, say named "123.icc" Then I use Capture One 4 to convert DMR/M8 RAW files. So in C1 setting should I set the ICC profile to "123.icc"? Or something like sRGB or Adobe RGB, etc.? Afterward I use Photoshop for some re-touching or adding some texts. Again in the PS colour management should I choose "123.icc"? Finally after re-touching I save the photo in JPG format then post to web. During saving the file, there is a box showing in PS as "save with ICC profile". Should I tick this box? I found that if I checked the box of "save with ICC profile", the final photo colours look more saturated than what I have tuned by C1 and PS. Did I set something wrong? Thanks in advanced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Hi bono0272, Take a look here Colour Management in C1 and Photoshop. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mgcd Posted July 6, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 6, 2009 Yes in C1 you'll want to use either the R8, R9 or M8 profiles as applicable. Cheers, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted July 6, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 6, 2009 When you calibrate your monitor the profile created is to be assigned for use by your operating system for that particular monitor. That profile is not meant to be used by C1 or Photoshop. As previously stated, in C1 you would want to use the appropriate Leica camera profile. In Photoshop there is more variability possible. Most likely one would use sRGB or Adobe RGB although some use wider color profiles than either of those. Also, in PS it is possible to use profiles for various papers if you want the image on your monitor to look closer to how the image will look on various papers on which you wish to print. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted July 6, 2009 Oh may be I misunderstood here: In C1 I do set the camera profile, say "Leica R8 generic" or "Leica M8 UV/IR generic". But after fine tuning all photo parameters like white balance/exposures etc. and go to the page of outputing, there is an option allowing me to choose the icc profile. In this option it shows: "sRGB, Adobe RGB, the icc profile created by Eye One, etc." My first question is: which option should I choose for this icc profile? My second question is: in Photoshop under "colour management", again it allows me to choose "sRGB, Adobe RGB, the icc profile created by Eye One, etc." What should I choose here, suppose I just want to post the photo to the web? I recognise that everytime after using Eye One to calibrate the monitor, Photoshop will automatically set the Colour Management RGB to the latest "Eye One icc profile". In fact if I set both C1 and PS using the Eye One icc profile, they provide the same colours. The problem is after post processing in PS, if I choose saving the photo with "icc profile", it displays with much higher colour tone or saturation. These confuse me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchoIankov Posted July 6, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 6, 2009 I use the same hardware/software to calibrate the monitor. Not an expert. My view is that the ICC profiles created by the software should only be used to load them in the video card (by the software that comes with Eye or OS) and nowhere else. These profiles map the colours leaving the PC (via the video card) to the monitor (LCD in most cases). When that transformation (ICC profile) is loaded in the card it should not be used enewhere else (it will be double transformation which is not disarable). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks Mitcholankov, may be tonight when I get home I copy the screen of C1 and PS then paste here for more advices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 6, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Forget about your monitor profile. That is for setting your monitor. In PS work in aRGB and 16 bits, at the end convert to 8 bits. For the web choose sRGB as output, for print either sRGB or aRGB, depending on your printer. Then you move into your printer setup and switch off colour management by PS, and choose the appropriate profile for the paper you are going to use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted July 6, 2009 Hi jaapv, Your advice is no need to set any icc profile which is being created by the Eye One? Then which program (or function) requires this icc profile? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted July 6, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 6, 2009 Proper 'end to end' colour management is a major thing to achieve properly and not cheap. Monitor Profiling Starting with the monitor, you quite rightly produce an ICC (ICM) profile using a calibrator. This gives you the 'best' possible 'on-screen' representation of colour and is loaded every time your computer starts up. This is the only place you use this profile. Camera Profiling Next, you photograph a proper colour chart (Gretag Macbeth or similar) Some of these (usually depending upon the number of swatches) are very expensive. It's now possible to create a colour profile for 'your' camera, though of course to do this properly you need one at every ISO value you ever shoot at and at every possible light condition/WB setting - I have to say I don't bother with camera profiling for that reason and most decent manufacturers will have done a lot of work here for you. Conversion/working space colour gamut Now, assuming you shoot in RAW, you convert the image using the widest colour gamut available - Adobe RGB 1998 or Pro Photo RGB. This ensures that you have the widest range of colours available HOWEVER your correctly colour calibrated monitor will not be able to display all of these colours as it's colour range will be less that this - some better than others. For in camera JPEGs you'll be working with sRGB from the start. Once you completed all of your PP you have two obvious output options - Print and Web. Web Lets deal with web as it's simpler. Once ready to 'output' you should typically convert the colour profile of your image from Pro Photo/Adobe RGB 1998 to sRGB and assign this to the image before posting it to the web. Most browsers default on sRGB. It's pretty universal and therefore accepted to give a 'standard' colour output. In theory, what you now see on your screen is what everyone should see via the web - assuming of course they have a properly accurately colour calibrated monitor. Firefox now offers the ability to use other colour spaces I personally think that's of little use other than for 'individual clients' or where you control the viewing 'colour space'. Printer Printer colour management is much more complicated as you have both the printer and the printer paper to consider. Each manufacture has profiles for it's printers and there is in theory at least, an ICC/ICM profile for each paper/printer combination. Those supplied by the manufacturers are however 'generic' and not specific to 'your' printer and 'your' batch of paper. Before you print you load the profile for the printer/paper onto your PC and then select it, in for example PS CS, VIEW/PROOF COLORS - now select your 'printer/paper profile' - this gives you a 'soft proof' representation of how your image will look when printed. Finally, once you print, again selecting the relevant profile (how you do this depends on what software you are using to print and your printer) you then have a pretty 'good' print with pretty accurate colours. However, to do this properly, you should then (using a 'print profiling scanner') check the print for it's colour accuracy and create your own 'individual' colour profile for 'your' own printer/batch of paper combination. Again, which hardware/software you choose determines the process. Cost for this can be £500-1500 so it's not cheap. Personally, I just worry about the monitor and then use 'standard' manufacturer profiles for printer/paper combos. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 6, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 6, 2009 Hi jaapv, Your advice is no need to set any icc profile which is being created by the Eye One? Then which program (or function) requires this icc profile? Read Ian's answer carefully. It is 100% correct. Short answer to your question: your monitor profile is meant to match your monitor to your computer. There are two ways. Either the computer controls the monitor through software, or you have an expensive monitor with built-in controls. Both are programmed to the correct profile by the use of for instance a Spyder, Eye-One, etc. device. After that, forget about this profile and go into your colour management sequence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted July 6, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks Jaapv. If you really want to read up on Colour Management - check out this great book Real World Color Management by Bruce Fraser. I'm sure there are others but it's the one I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks a lot ptarmigan and jaapv. I need to digest and try out on my PC. Please do not mind if I have more questions to ask in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted July 6, 2009 Hi jaapv and ptarmigan, I need your advices again. Would you please tell me whether my settings are correct or not here? The first image shows the conversion from a DNG file to JPG by using C1. Should I set sRGB at the box as pointed by the red arrow? The second image shows the "Colour Management" option in PS. Should I set sRGB at the pointed box? (Sorry I am using Chinese version but I believe you understand what I mean) The 3rd image shows while saving a file by using PS, there is a box saying "icc profile". Should I tick this box? This icc profile follows the setting as those set in above image 2. Thanks in advanced. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/89953-colour-management-in-c1-and-photoshop/?do=findComment&comment=954549'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 6, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) For one thing in C4 you should not be in JPG , but in TIFF 16 bits, and aRGB. And sharpening disabled. Open with C:/Program files/adobe/cs3/cs3.exe , or wherever you photoshop.exe is located. When saving a file at the end, in CS3,you should first set mode to 8 bits and either convert to aRGB to output to the web or in printing - I'll leave that one to Ian - I don't print myself, so I output unprofiled aRGB TIFFs for my printing service, who employ their own profoler. Edited July 6, 2009 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bono0272 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks again jaapv. However after I follow the steps you told me, I find that the saved file from CS3 looks with much higher saturated colours, which are different from the original displayed in C1 or PS (please compare the lips of the kid in the photo). During file conversion in C1 and PS I didn't adjust any colours. So what did I do wrong here? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/89953-colour-management-in-c1-and-photoshop/?do=findComment&comment=954636'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 6, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 6, 2009 You mean in the Web browser? The browser does not support aRGB, so it will display a flat image if you present it with such a file. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted July 6, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 6, 2009 You mean in the Web browser? The browser does not support aRGB, so it will display a flat image if you present it with such a file. Well, without wanting to confuse everybody, support depends on the browser: 1. Internet Explorer does not 2. Firefox pre-3.5 does only if you enable color management; 3.5 should if the image is tagged 3. Safari does Assuming of course a functional color management environment. Sandy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted July 6, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 6, 2009 For one thing in C4 you should not be in JPG , but in TIFF 16 bits, and aRGB. And sharpening disabled. Open with C:/Program files/adobe/cs3/cs3.exe , or wherever you photoshop.exe is located. When saving a file at the end, in CS3,you should first set mode to 8 bits and either convert to aRGB to output to the web or in printing - I'll leave that one to Ian - I don't print myself, so I output unprofiled aRGB TIFFs for my printing service, who employ their own profoler. I keep all my 'masters' either in RAW or TIFF at 16 bit Pro Photo or Adobe RGB 1998. The final JPEG should IMO always be converted to sRGB and I typically use SAVE FOR WEB is PS CSx for all web content. As far as printing goes, if printing from my iMac I wouldn't touch the colour profile of the file and would print from the TIFF (or RAW) using the SOFT PROFILE etc process I loosely described above. The image looks fine on my calibrated monitor viewed through Safari. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 6, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 6, 2009 The final image of the child in bono's post is tagged with AdobeRGB, whereas his screenshots indicate it should be sRGB. I'm using Firefox colour managed. His screenshots of Cap1 and PS show the same colour for the image. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted July 6, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 6, 2009 I'm using Safari and all looks fine to me. Your PS CS settings should look something like below only you use the CMKY for your area. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/89953-colour-management-in-c1-and-photoshop/?do=findComment&comment=954800'>More sharing options...
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