Recommendation on Black & White Photography

[sanyasi]

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I generally shoot digital color. After seeing many nice B&W photos on the forum, I'd like to start shooting for digital B&W. I am interested in a book that discusses shooting for B&W with a digital camera. I know there are books that discuss processing, but I would like to know what considerations I need to understand when taking the photo. Any recommendations would be appreciated--I haven't found much at Amazon.

 

Thanks

 

Jack Siegel

[msk2193]

Jack,

 

I would continue to shoot in color, and then do all your adjustments of the photograph in color. Once satisfied, I would use Nik software's Silver Efex Pro to switch the image to B&W. It allows you to actually select parts of the image and allow you to adjust those to a specific Zone.

 

This adds just a new layer to your image in Photoshop or Lightroom and preserves the underlying color data in case you ever want it.

 

Now printing becomes a whole different issue, with the very best results - detail wise - coming from a dedicated printer using the 7 black ink cartridges from Piezography (piezography.com) through Inkjetmall.com. Not cheap, but far better than any "regular" printer I have ever seen.

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[wparsonsgisnet]

Like Michael, I shoot raw, then use Silver FX Pro.

 

There is a DVD-based book on this sw, called "The Photog's Guide to Silver Efex Pro," by Jason Odell. this is inexpensive and very useful. Recommended.

 

I find that Fx Pro gets the b/w setting right the first time. I have spent many hours fooling with adjustments in PS, per another b/w book mentioned elsewhere here, called "Advanced Digital b/w Photography," by Beardworth. This book is also highly recommended.

 

There are times I am not fully pleased with FX Pro and I pull the Beardsworth book out, again. I don't think he misses a trick. BTW, the recommendation for Beardsworth that appeared elsewhere in the Forum was for the Advanced version. I have not read the previous book, but this one doesn't appear to need any intro -- at least not for someone already doing dig photog.

 

Do you plan to use a dedicated printer?

Edited June 16, 2010 by wparsonsgisnet

[stunsworth]

Like the others I use dedicated software - in my case Alien Skin Exposure. I think you'd be happy with either. The thing these packages give you is consistency and speed. By themselves I don't think they do anything you couldn't do in Photoshop by hand if you had the time and patience.

 

Be aware that many plug-ins won't currently work if you are using CS4 in 64 bit mode. Most should have updates in the near future.

 

For printing I use an Epson 3800, which produces excellent prints "out of the box".

[keithdunlop]

I don't think you really need a book -- you'll get plenty of information on forums such as this.

 

As far as your question, I don't really do anything differently when I shoot digitally if I think the file might end up as a B&W. It's all done in post-processing. All of my B&W conversations are done in Lightroom. Lightroom gives you all the tools you needs to control tonal range, and the split toning tools offer a lot of additional options. Also, new to version 3 are film grain tools.

 

You can search the web and get tons of digital B&W tutorials and presets for Lightroom, and I imagine the other popular post-processing programs.

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[Guest mc_k]

I would read "The Negative" at some point, or both the "The Negative" and "The Print" (Adams). May inform your B&W photography more than a book on digital.

[sanyasi]

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Thanks for the comments. I do use Nik Silver Effects and even if I shot for printing in B&W I would still capture the image in color. I was just wandering if there are different techniques when you are thinking B&W.

 

I will take a look at the Adams and Nik materials.

 

Thanks

[msk2193]

Jack,

 

Since you are capturing in color, the same rules apply as with color "film". B&W color correcting filters cannot be used, but I very often use graduated ND filters and a polarizer to get what I like. I forgot about Odell's book, but I did read that to get up to speed some years ago. There are no other Nik books on the market. I understand the head-training lady is working on one now.

[250swb]

Thanks for the comments. I do use Nik Silver Effects and even if I shot for printing in B&W I would still capture the image in color. I was just wandering if there are different techniques when you are thinking B&W.

 

I will take a look at the Adams and Nik materials.

 

Thanks

 

I use Nik Silver Efex and shoot in colour as well. But after many years using B&W film I can pre-visualise the image in B&W, and I think that is the important thing.

 

Look at the scene in front of you and imagine it in B&W, at where the tones fall, the balance of highlights and shadows, and the basic graphic quality. At this point at the very least you should know if colour would add anything to the image, or get in the way of what you want to get across. So try to decide before pressing the shutter if the image is going to be B&W or colour. You'll then start to compose with a feeling for tone rather than colour, perhaps place things in the frame differently, decide if you want 'grain' or a smooth graduation of tone. So by the time it comes to post processing you have the B&W image already in your head. Thats the skill.

 

Don't be tempted to use the B&W JPEG option, its simply gives an image in B&W, you need to make and image in B&W.

 

Steve

[Knomad]

I'm starting from the RAW file, converting to B&W in Photoshop, adjusting the channels individually. Then I'm printing from Lightroom to an Epson 3880 and am quite happy with the results. I currently have several 17x22 B&W prints done this way hanging in a major Chicago gallery.

 

It did take a little experimentation to select a paper type (which is mostly personal preference), and then to fine tune the image to look its very best on that particular paper. Once set, it's very easy to be consistent.

[sanyasi]

I'm starting from the RAW file, converting to B&W in Photoshop, adjusting the channels individually. Then I'm printing from Lightroom to an Epson 3880 and am quite happy with the results. I currently have several 17x22 B&W prints done this way hanging in a major Chicago gallery.

 

It did take a little experimentation to select a paper type (which is mostly personal preference), and then to fine tune the image to look its very best on that particular paper. Once set, it's very easy to be consistent.

 

I live in Chicago. What's the name of the gallery?

[sanyasi]

Mr. Moderator:

 

My question was specifically about shooting the photo, not processing or conversion to B & W.

[msk2193]

Jack, a tool I used in the 70s to get used to seeing in B&W was a Zone VI filter like this one...

Zone VI b&w viewing filter - eBay (item 200483278981 end time Jul-13-10 18:13:56 PDT)

It removes color from the equation and lets you concentrate on highlights and shadows.

[ptarmigan]

Personally I think it just takes practice and then more practice. Shoot in colour and then PP to B&W. Just shoot what you normally would in the way you would have with colour and then see what things look like after conversion. Comparing the two image will tell you a lot.

 

Pretty quickly you get to see what works and why. Use the forum and ask for opinions, you'll generally get some good advice. When you remove the colour from an image you have to focus on shape, form, tonality, maybe the graphical quality - all depends on the image. Some images work well in mono and others don't. Some work better in colour than B&W and visa versa. There's a time for both high and low contrast images too.

 

Check out the web for loads of example of B&W images and try for yourself. And yes, how you PP can have a dramatic affect on the results in the final image and there loads of good software, PS plug ins and techniques. Most have free trial downloads.

 

I'd sy that 80% of my photographs end up as mono these days.

[wparsonsgisnet]

BTW, with regard to FX Pro. I got the book on disk, referred to above, and increased the saturation before sending the color image to FX. This works for a pic with normal range of zones. However, when the pic has a higher-than-normal dynamc range, the b/w highlights posterize.

 

In my case it was a pic of dancers on stage with lousy lighting. There were 2 of 5 dancers in "darkness" (tho they were in the center of the lighted area!) and the 25% over-sat blew out the backs of the other dancers (posterized them).

 

Tho I said FX usually got it right the first time, sometimes the pic is *really* hard to print in any fashion.

[MaNi]

I can recommend "Darkroom to Digital" a book by Eddie Ephraums that I have found both helpfull and inspiring, during my transition to digital BW. (Published by Argentum).

 

 

Best regards,

Magnus Nilsson

[Guest malland]

...I would continue to shoot in color, and then do all your adjustments of the photograph in color. Once satisfied, I would use Nik software's Silver Efex Pro to switch the image to B&W...

While I like and use Silver Efex, I don't think that it's a good idea to do all your adjustments in color before converting to B&W. For Silver Efex, as for any other conversion to B&W, it's better to have a file that is somewhat flat when doing the conversion. Using a file that has been adjusted for the tones and contrast that you want in color often leaves "too little room" for the adjustments that you may want for a B&W print. For example, if one is going to make a color and B&W version of the same file, the results are likely to be better if you make the tonal and contrast adjustments separately for each of the two versions.

 

—Mitch/Paknampran

Portraits

Edited July 1, 2010 by malland

[johnwolf]

I'm with Mitch on this point. I know conventional wisdom says start the BW conversion with an optimized color file. But I'd rather start in Silver Efex Pro with a straight, flat BW conversion. I usually apply the Pull present first because I like the middle gray range it gives. I make contrast, structure, brightness, and tonal adjustments from there. I then move back to LR for local adjustments.

 

John

[thompsonkirk]

Now that LR/ACR/Photoshop is no longer limited to the Channel Mixer (& other options) for BW conversions, what exactly is the advantage of Silver Efex Pro? How does it improve upon using the multiple sliders (RGB+CMY) in a BW Adjustment Layer?

 

Kirk

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[Jeff S]

For the OP's question, which relates only to taking the photo and not to processing, my advice is to practice 'seeing' the world in b/w. Toward this end, Michael's recommendation (post 13) for using a viewing filter has some merit. Over time, one learns to see in b/w without visual aid.

 

This method is far preferable IMO to just shooting in color and later experimenting with the image in color and b/w (although in the beginning, this trial and error approach can be a useful learning experience). This is how one worked in the film era, and I believe the same mental and visual process applies to the digital age.

 

The ease of digital conversion is wonderful in many ways, but it can also act as a barrier to the pre-visualization process that can ultimately lead to better and more consistent success (plus a greater sense of accomplishment in creating a print that was intended at the outset).

 

Sean Reid has an essay on his site regarding working in color versus black and white...Welcome to ReidReviews In other essays he appropriately discusses the importance of studying other forms of art, especially painting, for gaining a better understanding of how to fill a frame. This is of course critical whether one works in color or b/w, and comes from years of learning and experience.

 

Jeff

Edited July 9, 2010 by Jeff S