Please help me to choose printer for my m9!

[jyrkialanen]

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Hello everybody! Greetings from Finland and many thanks to you all for this great forum.

 

I recently purchased a M9 and now I'm looking for a printer to go with it. Most important thing for the printer would be a good B&W print quality. I don't need the A2 (not neccesarily even A3 size), but is there a high quality equipment at the A4 size that could compete with Epson 3880 or similar products in B&W print quality?

 

I would be very grateful for help!

 

BR, Jyrki

[jackart]

May-be this review will help You Digital Photo Printer Reviews | DPmag.com

 

greetings from Estonia

 

Jaak

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I recently purchased a M9 and now I'm looking for a printer to go with it. Most important thing for the printer would be a good B&W print quality. I don't need the A2 (not neccesarily even A3 size), but is there a high quality equipment at the A4 size that could compete with Epson 3880 or similar products in B&W print quality?

 

 

From what I have researched, Epson 2880 (A3 max) or, as you mention, 3880 (A2 etc) reign supreme at present: one half the cost of the other. You have to weigh up capital outlay versus quantity of prints in a year, given that Epson claims a six-month expiry for inks after the cartridges have been opened; ie would you get through the 80ml ones in a six-month period? I haven't seen A4 printers reviewed as comparable in performance.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jyrki, do you plan to make only b/w prints?

 

I believe the more expensive 3800 series has 3 blacks in it, allowing both color and b/w without changing carts a lot of the time. If you're going to do both b/w and color, the 3800 series may turn out to be less expensive because of ink savings.

[jyrkialanen]

Thank you guys for your quick replies. I'll be doing both colour and b&w prints, so the Epson 3880 certainly has an advantige - on the other hand, I'm not sure will I be using it enough to avoid the ink cartridges to expire. Hmm, it's a tough decision and not least financially. I have used SO much money to the M9 and two lenses and I hoped I could save a little here, but this seems not to be the case:)

 

Anyways, thanks to you all, I'll let you know where the money was spent.

 

Best regards, Jyrki

[Jeff S]

Thank you guys for your quick replies. I'll be doing both colour and b&w prints, so the Epson 3880 certainly has an advantige - on the other hand, I'm not sure will I be using it enough to avoid the ink cartridges to expire. Hmm, it's a tough decision and not least financially. I have used SO much money to the M9 and two lenses and I hoped I could save a little here, but this seems not to be the case:)

 

Anyways, thanks to you all, I'll let you know where the money was spent.

 

Best regards, Jyrki

 

Since you've already invested in a great camera and glass, I think it would be unwise to scale down to save a few bucks on the printing end...if you really take pride in your prints. Same advice applies to papers and profiles, for that matter. The old adage about the chain and its weakest link...no different than in the film and darkroom days.

 

The 3880 is a great printer. Just run a print every so often to keep the heads clear. In the US, the rebate on the 4880 before the new year, along with my additional dealer discount, made that printer cheaper than the 3880, and the 4880 has auto head cleaning, which the 3880 does not. I'm not sure what deals, if any, exist in your neck of the woods on either. Might be worth checking around.

 

Regardless, I think it's worth the money...provided you plan to take the time to learn the equipment and the steps necessary to optimize your results.

 

Jeff

[borowiec]

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I wouldn't worry about Epson's claim that their inks expire after six months, that is an excessively conservative figure. I have had Ultrachrome inks for over a year and they have been fine. I even did a comparison using an ink cartridge that the dealer gave me because it was past its expiration date. I put it in my Epson 4000 printer, printed a test chart, and built a profile for the printer with that ink using a Gretag-Macbeth Eye-One. Then I made prints using the new profile and the old profile that was built with fresh ink. There was absolutely no discernible difference between the two prints, which shows that there was no difference between fresh ink and outdated ink.

 

Obviously, a better comparison would have been to replace all seven ink cartridges with outdated ones, but I was just trying to easily confirm what I had observed: that the inks don't expire nearly as soon as Epson claims.

 

So I would go for the 3880. Your biggest expense in the long run will be for ink and the larger the cartridge, the lower your cost per print.

 

Andrew Borowiec

[jyrkialanen]

Since you've already invested in a great camera and glass, I think it would be unwise to scale down to save a few bucks on the printing end...if you really take pride in your prints. Same advice applies to papers and profiles, for that matter. The old adage about the chain and its weakest link...no different than in the film and darkroom days.

 

The 3880 is a great printer. Just run a print every so often to keep the heads clear. In the US, the rebate on the 4880 before the new year, along with my additional dealer discount, made that printer cheaper than the 3880, and the 4880 has auto head cleaning, which the 3880 does not. I'm not sure what deals, if any, exist in your neck of the woods on either. Might be worth checking around.

 

Regardless, I think it's worth the money...provided you plan to take the time to learn the equipment and the steps necessary to optimize your results.

 

Jeff

 

Thanks Jeff - it's just like you said about the weakest link of the chain. I just thought, that IF there had been an A4-printer with similar quality than 3880 I might have saved a few euros.

 

This home printing is a totally new thing to me, so I think I'll be bothering you again with choosing papers and profiles.

 

Thank you very much so far, you have been very helpful and kind!

 

BR, Jyrki

[Jeff S]

Thanks Jeff - it's just like you said about the weakest link of the chain. I just thought, that IF there had been an A4-printer with similar quality than 3880 I might have saved a few euros.

 

This home printing is a totally new thing to me, so I think I'll be bothering you again with choosing papers and profiles.

 

Thank you very much so far, you have been very helpful and kind!

 

BR, Jyrki

 

Thanks for the nice words. Believe me, there are many other helpful folks on this forum, including those a lot more experienced and knowledgeable than I. I know...I started out the same as you just last year (after decades with film and darkrooms) and looked here often for digital advice. And, I still do. In addition, I'm quite fortunate to have a friend locally who is a computer and photo whiz, and a good teacher. He has helped me immensely along the way.

 

But, I will certainly be happy to share my experiences whenever you're ready. In the meantime, a couple of thoughts...

 

First, it helps to have a good grounding in digital theory, color management and so forth in order to understand the WHY behind a lot of steps, not just the how. I did a lot of reading and research first so that I better understood why my friend or others made certain suggestions, and whether or not those suggestions suited my style. Tastes vary, so it's good to know your options as well as the underlying mechanics.

 

Second, and more importantly, the real joy for me is making photographs. The rest is necessary, but not my passion. So, my best advice is take lots and lots of pics....the rest will come. And when that happens, unfortunately, you'll find lots of new ways to empty your wallet.

 

Jeff

[LuxBob]

My first post here.

I have been using an HP B9180 for about two years. Compared to the limited amount of dark room experience I had, digital printing and the whole digital process has opened up a new world. I can produce superb colour prints but my real love is B&W. Elsewhere I have seen SilverEfex mentioned and this is the product I use towards the end of my workflow. For me there is not just one way to produce a print but many and I experiment. For papers (I live in Luxembourg) I mostly use Canson Photosatin Premium RC but recently I have added Tecco PL 285 Luster. Canson is French but i believe available in the US and Tecco is German and for me, easily available.

The most important ingredient I have found to be patience and then perseverance. Although parts of the process are highly technical, it still takes care to get what you want. The HP is highly frustrating at times and I have to experiment but when I get it right there is immense satisfaction. I am considering a 3880 but am not yet convinced. On the Aperture forums I see people just as frustrated as me with their Epsons as I am with my HP. So my message is that it is not just the printer, it is tech process and your own commitment.

[jyrkialanen]

Again, thanks to all of you for your opinions and advice. I bought an Epson 3880 two days ago. Still learning of course, because it's my first serious printer. I have read a lot from the internet about the profiles and the correct settings of the LR and the printer driver, but even with my limited knowledge the first prints have all looked very nice. A bit darker than with my 24' Imac monitor, but I hope it's just a calibration issue (I have Leopad OS). I'm going to re-calibrate my monitor today with spyder 3.

 

Best regards, Jyrki

[Guest Bernd Banken]

Jyrki,

 

this was a good choice. The 3880 is more expensive compare to the smaller Epsons, but it's a lot cheaper due to the horrible costs for the tiny cartridges of the smaller printers.

In the german forum we had a comparison between the 2400, the 3800 and the 4xxx in which the costs for one liter ink had been calculated for appr. 1.000€ for the Epson range beneed the 3800.

 

My Epson 2400 is now nearly 3 years old with only a small quantity of prints. In order to avoid the costly 'washing' mode after cartridge change color ./. b/w another printer will be installed just only for b/w prints. It's a Epson 1400 in which I'll put 6 cartridges of b/w carbon ink. The samples I got look very promising.

 

Bernd

[UliWer]

.... For papers (I live in Luxembourg) I mostly use Canson Photosatin Premium RC but recently I have added Tecco PL 285 Luster. Canson is French but i believe available in the US and Tecco is German and for me, easily available.

The most important ingredient I have found to be patience and then perseverance. Although parts of the process are highly technical, it still takes care to get what you want. The HP is highly frustrating at times and I have to experiment but when I get it right there is immense satisfaction....

 

 

Welcome LuxBob!

 

I share your experience with the HP 9180: it can produce very good results, but sometimes it is frustrating. The latter is especially true for paper other than the HP Advanced. With HP Premium as well as with Ilford Premium I get very patchy results, looking like bad digital noise - which the file has not at all. Even with special profiles for ColorSync and experimenting with built in colour management I don't achieve anything like I use Advanced paper.

 

As you are using different papers it would be interesting to hear about your settings for colour management etc.

[jyrkialanen]

I calibrated my monitor using ColorEyes Display Pro demo and my Spyder 3 and I must say I'm very pleased. ColorEyes works much better than the Spyder Pro's own software and the image on screen seems to match much closer to the print now.

[wilfredo]

Again, thanks to all of you for your opinions and advice. I bought an Epson 3880 two days ago. Still learning of course, because it's my first serious printer. I have read a lot from the internet about the profiles and the correct settings of the LR and the printer driver, but even with my limited knowledge the first prints have all looked very nice. A bit darker than with my 24' Imac monitor, but I hope it's just a calibration issue (I have Leopad OS). I'm going to re-calibrate my monitor today with spyder 3.

 

Best regards, Jyrki

 

 

I'm glad to hear you didn't go with the 2880. I have that printer and loading thicker papers is a real frustrating challenge. It's going back to Epson, I finally gave up on it, and I will be replacing it with the 3880.

[adan]

Regarding printing volume and ink expiration and such with the 3800/3880. A key trick is to keep the ink well mixed, then the expiration date is about like that on B&W film. A guide, not a death watch.

 

I take out each 3800 ink cartridge once a month and shake it a little, to keep the pigment stirred up in the solvent - even if I've been printing all the time. Sometimes (especially with light magenta) the EPson's own tracking of ink use is a bit - approximate - so this also gives me a chance to feel, by weight, roughly how much ink is really left in each tank.

 

For mixed B&W and color printing, having real gray inks is critical.

 

I must say that, coming from a dye-based Epson 1280, I am still not totally happy with the color gamut/saturation of the pigment-ink 3800. Perhaps the Vivid Magenta inks of the 3880 help there. But dye printers can't handle B&W as well as the K3 inks (as well as being less archival).

[Jeff S]

Again, thanks to all of you for your opinions and advice. I bought an Epson 3880 two days ago...

 

Congrats, Jyrki. Enjoy!

 

Jeff

[jyrkialanen]

Thanks Jeff!

 

I will-

 

BR; Jyrki

[Guest WPalank]

Jyrki, do you plan to make only b/w prints?

 

I believe the more expensive 3800 series has 3 blacks in it, allowing both color and b/w without changing carts a lot of the time. If you're going to do both b/w and color, the 3800 series may turn out to be less expensive because of ink savings.

 

Just for point of fact, the switching of black inks relates to the type of paper used, matte or photo and not whether it is a color or black or white image.

 

That being said, I know there are a lot of photographers that print their black and whites exclusively on matte paper. However, I would suggest they take a look at new line of Baryta papers by Hahnemühle which use the Photo black inks.

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[Jeff S]

That being said, I know there are a lot of photographers that print their black and whites exclusively on matte paper. However, I would suggest they take a look at new line of Baryta papers by Hahnemühle which use the Photo black inks.

 

Yes, there are some other recent threads discussing papers and inks for b&w. I've been using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Photo Rag Baryta, both glossy papers, with Epson inks on the 3800. The results are terrific.

 

But, like a few others here, I plan to run Cone inks (7 shades of black compared to 3 with the Epson) on a separate dedicated b&w printer, which for me is a new 4880. Cone makes an ink set that works with these glossy papers, and can also be used with matte papers by switching out one of the blacks.

 

Jeff