banifa Posted February 7, 2007 Share #1 Posted February 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I recently acquired a Leica M8 with the 28mm 2.8 and the SB24D flash. I have dreamed of a Leica for about 20 years without being able to afford one. I thought the M8 is going to be it. After a few days of usage, I must say that I have serious doubt about my purchase. I take photography seriously without being a professional; although I am an amateur taking about 2 to 3000 shots a year. I have been using Nikon and currently own a D200. Having 5 Nikon lenses right now, the natural choice would have been to get a D2XS, but the Leica temptation ruled my choice. I took about 100 pictures and I must say that beyond getting used to the rangefinder, the manual focus (again) my only good feeling right now is the quality of the colors and the depth of the images. The flash seems weak and not working according to specs. The Iso settings are limited and only the 10M resolution gave good results on the printer. I might still be new at using the body but thinking about it, it seems to me that the M8 would be only an intermediate body until better resolution, more iso settings, WB, etc..will be implemented in the next release. The lens is fantastic, light and luminous but I guess the opportunity cost is too high right now. It seems to me that getting a D2xs (because of my lenses) or even a Canon 1 DS mark II with a new series of lenses would be a better investment. It will allow me to do more sport photography, would provide better flash system, etc… The whole thing behind Leica M8 at this point seems to be the lens system, but the entry ticket to use the lens seems high at this point Has someone faced the same issue? I would appreciate some insight and criteria for sorting this out. I am almost ready to return the camera (to my regret) … Amir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2007 Posted February 7, 2007 Hi banifa, Take a look here Is the Leica M8 worth it. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
waileong Posted February 7, 2007 Share #2 Posted February 7, 2007 Return the camera. You need a cheaper entry ticket to the world of RF photography before you splurge on the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waileong Posted February 7, 2007 Share #3 Posted February 7, 2007 M8 is NOT an intermediate body till the next increase in resolution, WB, etc. Unlike other companies, Leica's product cycles run into years. Leica waited 10 years into the digital photography resolution before they released a flagship product because they wanted a digital camera that wouldn't be obsolete for a long while. So if you want the M9, you'd probably have to wait till 2010 or later. The no of megapixels is no longer the determinant of quality. 10 MP is more than enough for most normal applications, and adding more just creates larger files, more noisy pixels without significant increase in image quality. Perhaps you should consider what is really important in a camera. It's not just MP, WB, fps, ISO settings, etc. Handling, ergonomics, fast, light, compact, etc. are also things to look for. The M8 is a specialised tool. It can't do well for many things-- macro, sports, astrophotography, etc. It was designed only to do a certain type of photography very well, and the design has been perfected over 50 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
banifa Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted February 7, 2007 Thank you for your reply. Provided I keep the M8, what kind of photography is it good for. What did you mean by getting into RF photography. Amir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTD Posted February 7, 2007 Share #5 Posted February 7, 2007 I don't mean this as a critisism; but I think you bought a sports car, when you wanted a 4X4. Like you, I always fancied a Leica. I recently got an M6, but it will never replace my SLRs. There are advantages (for some people) with rangefinders, but they're not for everyone. I'd agree with what waileong has posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xxl-user Posted February 7, 2007 Share #6 Posted February 7, 2007 The whole thing behind Leica M8 at this point seems to be the lens system, but the entry ticket to use the lens seems high at this point that´s it! leica is famous for the lenses not for the cameras. the m8 is the first try to build a digital rangefinder. it has a lot of flaws. if possible return the camera and wait for the m8.2 or m9. arnold Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
strick Posted February 7, 2007 Share #7 Posted February 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Amir, my experience: If you're starting into the M-system (analogue or digital) with this sort of complaints, you will never get really familiar with it. Years ago, as I bought a M7, I got myself into a comparable fix. I love the M7, somehow, but I like more the SLR-way. I'm still owning the M7, but it's the first camera in my "stable" which I would sell. If I were you, I would return the M8 and buy the Nikon instead. Cheers, Greg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimF Posted February 7, 2007 Share #8 Posted February 7, 2007 I don't mean this as a critisism; but I think you bought a sports car, when you wanted a 4X4.Like you, I always fancied a Leica. I recently got an M6, but it will never replace my SLRs. There are advantages (for some people) with rangefinders, but they're not for everyone. I agree completely with David. I first investigated Leica because a certain writer and photographer was (and is still) an enthusiastic user of the marque. After handling an M body I decided to give it a try, so bought one. The camera is perfect for the kind of photography I most enjoy, so much so that I'd now only use an SLR for the kinds of things I occasionally need and which a rangefinder can't do (either at all, or more normally with far less convenience), for me, that is a small amount of macro and a medium telephoto, c200mm (oh, and a PC lens). The world is littered with people who have long hankered after a Leica, only to regret it when they have bought one and find that rangefinder photography is not for them. You should, as has been said, picked up an inexpensive film body - any Voigtlander Bessa would do - to find out if the rangefinder ethos suits you. The whole style is not simply interchangeable with using an SLR, as you appear to have discovered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 7, 2007 Share #9 Posted February 7, 2007 Provided I keep the M8, what kind of photography is it good for. What did you mean by getting into RF photography Hi Amir, welcome to the forum. If sounds like you are havinmg quite a number of issues. The thing to state first of all is that not everyone 'clicks' with rangefinder cameras. They are different from SLRs on quite a number of levels, and in many areas an SLR is a better camera. If you do telephoto or macro work for example an SLR would be the most sensible choice. There are ways around this with an M, but to be honest they are cludges. It's not what the camera was intended to do. You ask what is kind of phorography the M8 is suitable for. This is a good question. The answer is probably just about anything that requires a lens from say 12mm to 90mm - or 135mm at a pinch :-). Within those ranges, and especially in the 24-90 region I have found the camera to be superb. Compared to an SLR it is small and light, as are the lenses. However it is different from an SLR. Obviously the focusing is different, and some people prefer either auto focus or the 'snap' that manual focus brings. However with an M8 or any rangefinder for that matter once you get used to the overlapping images used to focus you will probably find that you are able to focus faster and more accurately than with a manual focus SLR. The same applies with wide angle lenses whatever the light. One other big difference is that everything is in focus in the viewfinder, not just the point on which you are focussing. I find that this, coupled with the fact that you can see outside of the frames and therefore anticipate what is about to enter them, is the biggest single advantage of the rangefinder system. One thing you will never get with an M8, or any other M for that matter is precise framing. If that is important to you then you'll need an SLR - and very few of those, film or digital, have a true 100% viewfinder. What I would suggest is that you don't give up on the M8. Try it for a few months, perhaps in conjunction with your Nikons. If after that time you still feel that it isn't the camera for you then sell it. There's no shame about not liking a rangefinder, it's just a personal preference :-) All the above IMHO of course, others may disagree ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share #10 Posted February 7, 2007 Yes, RF photographyis NOT for everyone! I bought my 1st RF almost 2 years ago, the Epson RD1 - Yea, I went digital before film. Before the Rd1 I used digital SLR's from Nikon and Olympus (E1) - At 1st, with the Rd1 I hated the RF way of focusing and shooting and the close focus distance. No close ups, no tele shots, etc. I only had ONE lens, and it was not even a leica lens. It was a VC 35 PII for $300 I bought from BH with the RD1. After a couple of weeks I started to REALLY love the Rd1 and i bought a 50 Summilux ASPH to go with my 35. Well, after using it on two trips for a few months I decided I missed shooting my SLR's so I bought a D200 and a 5D. LOVED the 5D and thought it was the best thing ever! BUT I never used it as it was too large, heavy and looked like a toy tank around my neck. I was missing my RD1 bad so I did the next best thing. Sold ALL of my digital SLR gear (except the E1) and purchased a Leica M7 and shot film for 3 months straight. I fell in love all over again with RF shooting and told myself this is all I need to be happy. I then bought a black MP and swore that I preffered film. Bought a Nikon scanner and realized that in 7 months I have spent a small fortune on film and processing and i have three drawers full of negatives already! When the M8's showed up online yesterday I bought one and it is being delivered today, in about an hour. I have a weird feeling I will prefer my MP becuase looking at my film images, while not the best stuff i have done, they have a unique look and feel about them that I am now thinking I would miss. I just sold my scanner, and have the MP up for sale becuase I was thinking how great the M8 will be, and after the purchase I need the $$ to pay off the bill! if the M8 is not to my liking or has problems it will go back to B&H and I will keep shooting film. But, if the M8 is at the same quality level (PQ) wise as my old RD1, I doubt it will be going anywhere. I do occasionally miss taking the SLR shots like tele shots and macro, BUT I get much more enjoyment from my RF shooting. It makes me think more, and instead of zooming and firing away 10 shots I find I am taking my time more to get a better shot. I can't lie, most of my digital shots are better than my RF shots for the most part, but there is a learning curve and I feel it takes 2-3 months to really get a feel for shooting an RF, and up to a year to get good at it. I have no desire to get another SLR. Its either the M8 or my MP - I'll know more in a few days which I prefer. Good luck, and if you stick with the M8 I am sure you will grow to appreciate it for what it is and most likely if you return it and go back to the SLR's you will miss it after just a few days. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share #11 Posted February 7, 2007 For those interested, I have a zenfolio page with two galleries showiong samples from my digital SLR's and one from my film RF shooting... http://stevem7.zenfolio.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 7, 2007 Share #12 Posted February 7, 2007 You mention Sport & Flash photography - presumably both are important to you? If so I'd say that the M8 isn't really the right camera for you. The M is the perfect street, social and reportage camera. Its really just a case of horses for courses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdap@mac.com Posted February 7, 2007 Share #13 Posted February 7, 2007 You mention Sport & Flash photography - presumably both are important to you? If so I'd say that the M8 isn't really the right camera for you. The M is the perfect street, social and reportage camera. Its really just a case of horses for courses. While I agree with James, I have been shooting Leica rangefinder for most of my life, so it is very comfortable; I shoot classical dance all the time with great results( rangefinder/manual focus), and on top of that, I shoot the noctilux always wide open at f 1.0! While not for everyone, an amazing and unique tool. I can assure you, the images from the m8 and the noctilux cannot be duplicated by any camera/lens/photoshop combo! Stick with it! mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 7, 2007 Share #14 Posted February 7, 2007 It takes years and lots and lots of practice to master the rangefinder. Fortunately for me I have. And I've picked up lots and lots of great used Leica gear over the years from my local dealer thanks to the doctors and lawyers (I'm not kidding!) who go in and buy what they've heard to be the best and then are totally stumped as to how to use it and return it all for trade in at next to nothing for a digital slr and the savings are then passed on to me. And there's nothing wrong with that. I shoot rangefinders (Leica M, Mamiya 6 and 7) and slrs (Rollei TLR, Nikon d200, F100 etc) depending on my need. The Leica is superb for travel - light (ish), unassuming, and the lenses compact (compare a Canon 35 1.4 with a Leica M 1.4) so I can carry more. But it's not easy to use - it's all about visualising. You have to use a different part of your brain than you do with an slr and sometimes it just doesn't work, even for me. And for sports - forget about it, except for maybe sports closer in or the sidelines, locker room (great for that). Best of luck, Charles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimF Posted February 7, 2007 Share #15 Posted February 7, 2007 And for sports - forget about it, except for maybe sports closer in or the sidelines Like this fabulous Garry Winogrand picture for example. (taken from masters-of-photography.com) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/15544-is-the-leica-m8-worth-it/?do=findComment&comment=164812'>More sharing options...
abrewer Posted February 8, 2007 Share #16 Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Amir! Welcome to the Forum! I moved your thread to the Digital Forum as you will get more responses from other M-8 owners here. Good luck with finding the value in your camera. It's in there (believe me!), but you'll have to modify your "SLR mindset" to find and enjoy it. It's worth it! Thanks. Allan BTW That Winogrand shot is awesome Thnx AB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted February 8, 2007 Share #17 Posted February 8, 2007 On camera fash and sports photography are the domain of SLR cameras. The usable M8 ISO range is the same as for most DSLR's (160-640) only some of the Canons are delivering better high ISO's. Only 10 MP looks good on print? Why buy an M8 or a 1Ds MK II or any other expensive camera and not use all the resolution you paid for. I'd advise you send the camera back. Get a cheap RF to play around with and see if it's something that might be useful for what you want to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craftsman Posted February 8, 2007 Share #18 Posted February 8, 2007 Yea I agree your not ready for the M8. Like someone else said it's a"specialized tool". the closest comparison would be... something like those $800.00 hammers that the government buys for NASA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted February 8, 2007 Share #19 Posted February 8, 2007 While I agree with James, I have been shooting Leica rangefinder for most of my life, so it is very comfortable; I shoot classical dance all the time with great results( rangefinder/manual focus), and on top of that, I shoot the noctilux always wide open at f 1.0!While not for everyone, an amazing and unique tool. I can assure you, the images from the m8 and the noctilux cannot be duplicated by any camera/lens/photoshop combo! Stick with it! mark My M8/Noct shots look very much like my 5D 85 1.2 shots. My MP/Noct shots have more of the Noct signature, but so far, the M8 has not 100% wowed me. Colors are a bit off and AWB is awful. My MP and film gets me much more pleasing colors and tones. The M8 looks VERY digital to me. Maybe Im just used to film since Ive been shooting it daily for 8 months. I like the M8 body and usability, but so far no WOW factor for me, expecially at nearly $5k. I prefer, by a wide margin my Rd1 shots for color, quality and the way it captured the light. Ill keep chugging with the M8 and give it a chance though. I would be thrilled to keep this for a long time to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 8, 2007 Share #20 Posted February 8, 2007 It takes years and lots and lots of practice to master the rangefinder I can't agree with this as a generalisation. I only bought my first rangefinder - IIIC in 1999 or so, bought an M2 the following year. I think I felt compfortable with both after a couple of days or so. While I agree that some people find the adjustment from SLRs very difficult I guess I was lucky. The camera seemed so 'right' from the very start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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