24mm Viewfinder Options ?

[Rolo]

Just bought a mint 24mm f2.8 Asph lens in anticipation of the purchase of an M8.

I'm now thinking of using this lovely lens on my MP with 0.72 viewfinder. As yet, I haven't bought the plastic accessory finder which I've never liked because it's so fragile (snapped one on a 21mm lens ).

Is there a practical metal alternative to this finder?

My next lens up the scale is 35mm, so the multi-viewer is a bit over the top.

I'm not averse to shooting without a finder, in fact would much prefer it, as one can become used to a field of view by trial and error and a ground glass screen on the film gate, but a nice viewer from another manufacturer might be more appropriate for this fine lens. It would also enable the lens to be used with my M3 on rare occasions.

[marknorton]

Sure, buy the 21/24/28 Leica finder. It's nicely made in diecast aluminium. I had heard bad reports about its build quality but it seems fine to me. The only issue I have is that the hot-shoe on my M6 is too narrow to allow the finder to slide in easily but it's fine on my R-D1, D2x, D2 so I assume the 1992 vintage hot-shoes were a bit off. Specifically, the gap between the hot shoe flanges is 0.3mm less on my M6 than on my R-D1, which turns a snug fit into an impossibly tight one.

If you're at all minded to buy the new Tri-Elmar, this finder will also do a great job on the M8 with that lens since each of its settings match the settings on the finder. So, you'd set 16 on the lens, 21 on the finder.

[wizard]

Apart from Leica's plastic 24mm finder and their metal multifinder, the only alternative I know of is CV's 25mm finder. Though plastic, too, the later brightline version of that finder is a joy to use, very bright and with clearly visible brightlines. I use it with my 24mm Leica lens, and the field of view matches almost perfectly.

Come to think of it, there is also the 25/28mm metal Zeiss finder, which is much more expensive though. And I don't like having two frames so close together, but that's a personal matter.

Cheers,

Andy

[albertwang]

Personally I would ditch the finder and just shoot from the hip at f8. Solves all that problem of losing it.

[vic vic]

rolo.. dont have the 24 elm lens but i have voigtlander 25 snap-skopar which came with its own viewfinder.... the viewfinder is really great and very informative and the build quality is good indeed. it is a big bigger i suppose than the leica dedicated 24 finder but about the same bulk i suppose as the new zeiss.. it is bright and comfortable in viewing and in short great in use... i think u can use it on the 24mm too without any problem.. the differance between 24 and 25 is not that big anyway..

[gberger]

Courtesy of a rich neighbor, I tried the CV 25mm, the Zeiss 25/28 and the Zeiss 21 with my 24mm Elmarit ASPH.

As stated above by Andy, the FOV of the CV 25 is almost a perfect fit. The Zeiss viewfinders are expensive; however, if you have ageing eyes, the cost may be worth it. You can use the 25/28 and compose just beyond the 35mm framelines, or you can use the 21mm and compose within. The Zeiss viewfincers are very bright and don't have the slight barrel distortion effect of the CV 25.

If my eyes were better, I'd have chosen the CV 25 - - but they aren't, so I held my breath, took a strong hold on my wallet, and bought the Zeiss 21. I'm now a pooer but happier shooter.

[Rolo]

Thanks for the info guys.

George, Old Fud; that's a touching story. Fortunately, although I'm over 45, I have perfect vision in one eye and that's all you need with a Leica.

[xjr]

The 21-24-28 finder is a fabrication nightmare ! Mine went back after less than a year and my friend's virtually desintegrated due to motor-bike vibrations on his way to Wetzlar and he had it sorted out in Solms.....well..partly !! It is made in....Japan you know.
So why not try the Zeiss one for their 25mm lense...is it that critical? really ?or may be Voigtlander ? Perhaps the new one coming up covering 16-18-21-24-28 !
By the way the 24mm quality is phenomenal ! Dropped mine about 1.5m up ..chipped plastic cap but lense not affected.This is what you pay for , not just optics.

[Rolo]

I'm going to fo;;ow Albert's suggestion in the near future and see how it goes.

My guess is I squeeze every drop out of the standard 0.72 viewfinder I soon be able to judge what else is on the image. Not ideal, but I'm not fond of accessory viewfinders.

I've manages this technique in the past with 21mm on an M6 and a 43mm on a Mamiya 7.

Framing became pretty accurate with a little practice and the angles and composition lines worked well.

I've also got a small piece of transliscent plastic i've mentioned before. I stick the camera on a tripod with the back open and lock the shutter with a locking cable release.

Then press the palstic against the film rails and VOILA, I've got a ground glass back showing the exact field of view for the lens. Can then compare it with the camera viewfinder at various distance settings and by peering into the dark recesses of the the viewfinder you get an impression of how the image compares with the viewfinder.

Also useful as well with standard lenses and you can observe how cut-off occurs with distance setting.

Like it ? It's free !

[Micheal]

I would suggest an alternative to "shooting from the hip". Get a SLR. Experience the difference in looking through the optics, with its inherent spacial characteristics, as opposed to on optical add-on "in the ballpark", auxillary viewfinder. Anything under 28mm I find problematic with a M series camera. Just my opinion from use. I think a M7 is truly a beautiful camera.

If you go for shooting from the hip, I would think of it more as "Zening it in".

Sincerely,
Michael

www.stardustgrafik.com

R 8, 19mm Elmarit, 28mm Elmarit, Nikon F3/moterdrive, 20mm nikkor, 28mm nikkor, 35mm nikkor, Canon IV. 16mm-35 f. 2.8 Canon. Both the F3 & IV have 100% viewfinders which I utilize, although the brightness/clarity of the R8 is stunning in comparison & more than makes up for the difference in percentage points.

[Rolo]

[quote=Micheal]I would suggest an alternative to "shooting from the hip". Get a SLR. Experience the difference in looking through the optics, with its inherent spacial characteristics, as opposed to on optical add-on "in the ballpark", auxillary viewfinder. Anything under 28mm I find problematic with a M series camera. Just my opinion from use. I think a M7 is truly a beautiful camera.

If you go for shooting from the hip, I would think of it more as "Zening it in".

Sincerely,
Michael

Hi Micheal,

I have two SLR's, a Hasselblad 503 Cx and a Canon 1D Mk II N, plus a Rolleiflex TLR f2.8. They are all great at what they do.

However, the Leica M will slip in a shirt pocket without its lens, or sit under a coat in bad-ass country with its lens mounted, or shoot in the dark when they others are in their cases. What's more, none of them feels like shooting with the M.

You've got one, so you know what it's like.

I've had an 21mm before and I used that OK and I deliberately left the plastic viewfinder on the shelf in the shop when I recently bought the 24mm. I'm interested in what's available in the market, but I'll shoot it without any rather than break another piece of poor engineering. All IMO, of course.

[rsh]

I have the old plastic 24mm finder. It has held up well and I like it.

[gberger]

Rolo - You said:

Fortunately, although I'm over 45, I have perfect vision in one eye and that's all you need with a Leica.

I'm 83+ with macular degeneration in my right eye - - forcing me to become a left eye shooter. That Zeiss 21 was well worth it!

Now, if I could just get a new right eye . . . . . . . . . .

[charlesphoto99]

The plastic Leica finder has always worked great for me (it came with the lens) though I've found the Voightlander 25 finder to be tempting. The Leica finder tends to be a bit wide in the framelines I find, but I like the profile and size of it. Perfectly sturdy unless you're doing something you shouldn't be.

I shoot with a .58 finder and find I can go without the finder for moving subjects (or when I'm using a shoe mounted flash). Alas, it brings up the 35mm framelines instead of the 28 so don't have the 28 framelines as a judge (a design flaw in my opinion). I doubt you can judge a 24 frame with a .72 though.

In my opinion the M 24mm is the most under rated lens in the Leica stable. I've shot with every 24mm out there and the M wins hands down. All this grumbling over the M8 and the need to own a 24mm is out of place if you ask me - people that never considerd owning the 24 before are going to be blown away by this lens. Nearly zero distortion, and sharp edge to edge wide open. An absolutely stellar lens that I've taken some of my best images with.

[Rolo]

Fud,

I do have another eye, but the vision isn't good enough to use it for focussing. Therefore, I have always been left eyed too.

Don't have any of that degeneration stuff at the moment and pray never.

Most old Fuds I know can't email, so participating in these Forums must be entertaining for you ?

Nice to be in your acquaintance.

[Rolo]

Richard/Charles,

I have no criticism of the 24mm finder, other than it's made of the same plastic material that my 21mm finder was made of.

It's understandable that you have faith in it because you haven't suffered a failure.

I was crossing a road and heard a tinkle sound, could see anything so walked on. Then noticed my viewfinder was missing and saw the top housing lying in the road. Went on to find that there were dozens of failures. No idea if it was a batch or not, or indeed if its been changed since.

Just take a good look at it. There is no strength in the support bracket/attachment point. It's made of brittle plastic and I see it as a weak spot in a very tough camera system. It should have had some structure to it or made of rubber.

The glass is superb.

I'm not trying to influence you, just seeking an alternative for myself. Please rely on your own experiece.

Charles, Puts describes this as the Mlens, so I think it's given due praise, but maybe it is a relative newcomer. Everybody I've spoken to sings its praises. Great that you like it so much.

Can you describe its character/personality any more ? What do you like using it for mostly. Is there a bokeh? Are you shooting B&W /colour with it. Any let downs at all.

I've not been out since mine was delivered.

[vic vic]

charles - zero distortion on 24mm asph???? :-))))
sorry man .. this is a crazy and amazing lens, i know it very well although i dont have it myself.... but zero distortion it is not. zero distortion (or almost zero) belongs to the schneider and rodenstok big format lenses and the biogon 38.. all the rest are not in that standard for this point of view.. not even leica. the 28 summicron has less distortion than 24 actually...
but again.. the lens is really great.. and the distortion it has is fully accaptable in most of the cases (or at least not an issue in jurnalistic kind of photos and alike).
if u photograph stuff that needs zero distortion than better buy the alpa camera with 58mm schneider on it and 6x9 back... it is equivalent (so to speack) to using leica camera and 24mm... u will have zero distortion and actually u even can have lens rise at finger and with ease (for perspective control) :-)))))

[charlesphoto99]

Okay, not zero distortion. Not even close. I overstated - but hardly noticeable compared to the Nikon 24mm f2 or Canon 24mm f1.4 (both lenses I've owned in the past). Yes, I also have the 28mm f2 aspheric and agree it is a better lens in some aspects - but when you need that extra coverage the 24mm is amazing as most people viewing the photo don't react to it as being taken with a superwide lens (same goes for the 28). I also have the 21 non-aspheric but find I don't use often as it's too wide and too much obvious looking distortion.

I would love to use the Alpa but alas it's about the same as down payment on a house and nobody rents it in my area. I shoot Mamiya 6 and 7 with their wide lenses and love it. Check out Lee Friedlander's photos in this week's NY Times magazine for some great backstage fashion shots done with, methinks, a Hassie SWC.

[leicapfile]

At one time I had the 28mm Leitz finder to go with a v1 28mm lens. Used them on a M3 and M2 at the time (15 or so years ago).

The metal finder was always a wee bit loose in the shoe, so I was always careful with it, wrapping one thickness of Scotch tape across the base. I later sold the lens w/finder.

About 6 years ago, I got a 24 mm lens w/plastic Leica finder, and a year ago, a used TRI so needed the 28mm Leica plastic version.

I've never had a problem with either. The glass on both is as good as was the glass in the old metal Leitz finder, and each fits snugly in the shoe, even without using the locking feature of the new one. In fact, it is so snug, that I have to excercise some care removing it. Exactly the reverse of the metal one. Perhaps as time passes with repeated use on each, the sides will lose a little of their width, and the lock can be used to make that up.

As far as the view goes, each is just as good and bright as the original Leitz 28mm was, so I have no complaints there. I do wish the VF cases were slotted to attach to the strap. The snap on each case is quite positive though, and I have taken to stowing the VF in the case, then snapping it over the strap. Works fine.

Best,

Jerry

[gberger]

Rolo -

I began with an Argus in 1940 (Kodachrome). Went to a a Leica IIIc in 1945 (Germany), an early M4, then to the M6 and M7. I have around 4000 slides that have been culled from untold number of 36 and 24 exposure cartridges.

I've been using computers since well before the Internet - - - remember Pine for e-mail? My primary use of both e-mail and the Internet these days is to provide advice to men who have just been diagnosed with prostate cancer, as I'm a survivor (or, as we say, still in remission).

Getting my grandkids hooked on Leica photography has been a mission - - as I have to figure out who gets my stuff when I shuck this mortal coil.

No, I don't haunt this list for kicks - - but to learn, and to suggest to others (from my 61 years with a Leica) what might work.