MP Quality

[jtank]

Hello All

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

I think the Leica bug has bitten me and I'm very keen to buy into the M system. This will be my first foray into rangefinder territory, and I would be very grateful for any advice that I can receive.

I'm looking to buy a new MP, along with a 35 lux and a 75 lux to start with.

1. I'm worried about the quality of the MP, after having scoured every possible bit of material on the net - the reviews have been great, but users seem to complain a lot about the quality. Is it possible that the initial production run (2003) had a few faults and that Leica has fixed things, thus making the new MPs more reliable?

2. I understand from the Leica distributor in Hong Kong that the new MP comes with a 5 year international warranty. However, I have been reading that there is a lot of unclarity about Leica's warranty, and that overseas service centres are not willing to service the camera. Is this true?

3. I've seen excellent photos taken with the 21/2.8. Is it possible to use this lens with the MP without an exteral viewfinder?

Regards

jtank

[mhanke]

Hi,

all I can say is that the MP is a true bare bones-camera, and I have yet to hear about quality issues. Unlike the M7's well-known trouble with the automatic ISO setting, the MP barely features any electronic help, other than that of the light meter. Since I use mine only since eight months, I do not feel competent enough to give an authoritative comment on the quality. But for me, the MP is similar to the M6 Classic, and that one is working since years with me.

May I ask why you would like to purchase an 1.4/75mm Summilux? It is a very bulky and heavy lens. I love mine, but use it only for very specific occasions indoors. Accurate focussing at open stop is hardly possible without the 1.25x viewfinder loupe. For general purpose photography, I use a 90mm Elmarit telephoto, but all people owning the new 2.0/75mm Summicron are extremely enthusiastic about it. It is compact and rather lightweight, with stunning performance at only one stop less than the Summilux. Maybe you should consider that one as a start.

The 5 years warranty is normally only granted when the camera is registered, and for that you need the sales confirmation/receipt from an authorized dealer. New cameras purchased from private people or internet dealers (if they are not authorized Leica dealers) do not qualify for that warranty scheme. I hope I am correct on this, if not, please correct me.

Yes, you would need an additional viewfinder in any case when using the 21mm wideangle lens. Even the special .56 viewfinder MP that can be ordered only shows the frame for the 24mm in the internal viewfinder.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Marcus

[leica_mage]

Originally Posted by mhanke

[...] Even the special .56 viewfinder MP that can be ordered only shows the frame for the 24mm in the internal viewfinder.

Marcus, forgive a slight correction to your account of the 24mm view: there are no 24mm framelines in the 0.58 (and not 0.56) MP, but the entire viewinder border can be used to approximate them. Of course you lose the surrounding area that way, and thereby a great advantage of the rangefinder, since your vision is then essentially SLR vision.

Best,

[bindrar]

Hi,

I cannot shed any light on the quality isues you have heard. The only thing I ever heard was people complaining about the rewind knob on it and the crank handle (an extra) that causes scratching of the top plate. The rewind knob on the M7 on the other hand has been known to get bent if the camera is dropped. If you get an a-la-carte you can choose which one you like as well as get the classic engraving on the top plate - that would be my preference as well as saddle leather.

Also as Marcus says, think of the 75mm f2 Summicron - it is a much more recent deisgn and according to the MTF charts, a far higher quality lens (it is based on the 50mm f1.4 Apo - I think). Anyway, I have the 35mm summicron and will order the 75mm -cron too. I did think about the 90mm instead, but I have the R-90mm and I often find that indoors, I end up with very tight head shots with little room for movement. Instead I will eventually get a 135mm.

And welcome to the world of Leica ... a world where you can spend your money before the wife and kids take it all away

[mhanke]

Originally Posted by leica_mage

Marcus, forgive a slight correction to your account of the 24mm view: there are no 24mm framelines in the 0.58 (and not 0.56) MP, but the entire viewinder border can be used to approximate them. Of course you lose the surrounding area that way, and thereby a great advantage of the rangefinder, since your vision is then essentially SLR vision.

Best,

Yes, of course you are right. I just typed my post quickly, without reading any of my references. In the case of the original question, I might also add that the combination of a 0.58x viewfinder MP and a 1.4/75mm is a likely guarantee for out of focus pictures at large apertures.

Regards,
Marcus

[leica_mage]

Sorry, just another correction here:

Originally Posted by bindrar

[...] the crank handle (an extra) that causes scratching of the top plate.

The crank handle is actually soft-padded on the bottom precisely in order to avoid such scratching;

and here:

[...] the 75mm f2 Summicron - it is a much more recent deisgn [...] based on the 50mm f1.4 Apo - I think) [...]

There is no APO 50mm f/1.4 - it's actually a 50mm ASPH Summilux (i.e. f/1.4).

Lastly, let's not lead jtank astray with MTF charts; they have their usefulness, but they do not determine whether one lens has a higher 'quality' than another. The correction of aberrations, etc. is a complex process that has taken Leitz - later Leica - decades to come to grips with with increasing effectiveness. But this is not about quality. The APO 75 is the better-corrected lens indeed, but the real difference between it and its Summilux sibling - apart from the ergonomics and extra stop - is one of fingerprint. And that only the prospective buyer can judge, with some hard work comparing images and, if possible, borrowing or renting both lenses between which a choice is to be made.

Best,

[frc]

Hallo Jtank,


Welcome to the forum.
Except for the 24 error ( mistakes are humane ) I fully agree with Marcus. My MP which is in almost daily use for over two years now has sofar never let me down. Although photography is not my main source of income, the use I make of the MP is tougher than the worst pro-abuse imaginable. Documentary and concertshooting under sometimes adverse conditions.
Both the lux 35 asph and lux 75 are in my collection. The 35 is my main lens and performs fantastically. The 75 wideopen however is that difficult to focus in the closeup range that the extra stop get you nowhere unless you're a tripod stilllife or portretshooter. Given the fact that the cron 75 apo asph is nearly as fast and gives more crisp images ( other peoples words, I haven't used it ) and is a lot less bulky the newer design lens would be my favorit. The external 21-24-28 viewfinder is a terrible thing to work with imho, using the 21 asph without it takes a very keen and experienced eye. The lens produces very fine images.
Warranty for registered owners is 5 years, spareparts are promised to be obtainable up till 30 years after purchase.
Lifespan camera, no clue, many people still shoot M3's


cheers,

[treeplanter]

Originally Posted by jtank

I'm worried about the quality of the MP, after having scoured every possible bit of material on the net - the reviews have been great, but users seem to complain a lot about the quality. Is it possible that the initial production run (2003) had a few faults and that Leica has fixed things, thus making the new MPs more reliable?

Outside of the "dust in the viewfinder" thing, which Leica quickly fixed, the MP has developed a reputation for outstanding quality. At least mine has. I've owned one since late November, 2004, and have put over a hundred of rolls of film through it, with no absolutely problems.

Jim Bielecki

[SteveYork]

I have two MPs and have never had a problem. The 0.72 I got when the model first came out and have passed 100's of rools through it. The 0.58 I got a year ago when a dealer was liquidating his Leica stock. As a parenthetical note, this one is fast becoming my camera of choice, coupled with a 35mm Summilux ASPH, because it is so versatile and I can now see all of the framelines (I wear glasses).

I echo the comments regarding the 75mm Summicron ASPH. The image quality is that good. You probably would not use the extra stop of speed on the Summilux, because of depth of field issues. I would probably sell my 0.72 if it wasn't for the image quality of the 50mm Summilux ASPH. That one is such a nice lens, that I keep the 0.72 around dedicated to it. My understanding is that the 75mm Summicron ASPH is the same or better.

My problem with a 75mm lens is the focal length -- how do you use it? I suspect the 35 and 75 combo is very good, Actually, I'm starting to drool on the keyboard. I better stop.

[Dan States]

Leica owners, especially first timers, are famous whiners when it comes to the slightest problems or perceived issues with their cameras. It seems that for many the fantasy was better than the reality. For this reason the internet is actually a pretty bad place to pick up hard data on reliability. If Leica sold 10,000 MP's and 100 of them had problems guess who is going to start posting on the web? Certainly not the 9,900 people who are happily taking pictures!

Rest assured that the MP is, as a whole, the finest mechanical camera on the market today...maybe ever, and if you do happen to have a problem Leica will bend over backward to make it right.

Best wishes
Dan

[uulrich]

The MP is a camera body sturdy and reliable as a camera could be. I carry my MP around a bit on a daily basis; I do not leave home w/out it actually. My MP has never let me down and Leica's good work is apparent. I do not understand the emotional discussion about MP but I can confirm that the MP is top notch.

I also have the 75/1.4 and it is heavy but it is an extremly good lens. I do not have the 50mm 1.4 but have 1.0 and 2.0 and I can assure you that I will add the 1.4 soon.

[leica_mage]

By the way, jtank, I forgot to add the most important thing: I am an M6 user who some time ago emerged from the freezing cold of the SLR world after owning a total of seven camera bodies and seven lenses (six focal lengths).

I sold all that to finance my entry into the M realm with an M6 and four lenses (corresponding to three focal lengths). I then shed one of the lenses (one of two in the 35mm FL, the pre-ASPH 'lux in favour of the ASPH 'cron).

I have been passionate about this hobby for a good part of the past twenty-seven years. I have tried equipment by a total of four different companies.

I am about to buy my second Leica body after the M6.

It is going to be the MP.

There will be a third body at some point. I'm not sure what it's going to be exactly, but there's is a very good likelihood it will be... an MP.

Go for it!

Best,

[vic vic]

as a leica mp dedicated user (this is my prime tool among everything) i can say that everything advertized by leica like "ultimate tool" and stuff like this is all true. this is really the ultimate photographers tool.
about quality... ??? is there any issue at all :-)))
it passed through "combat", the 500 summilux (pre ashp) was broken (its front elemnts), the camera - as if nothing happened.
it is in almsot daily use, sometimes all day long.

[abrewer]

I'll just add my own experience to what's already been said: that the Leica MP is a fabulous camera, fully manual, that has a sterling track record in my own hands.

I've heard gripes about the plastic ISO dial on the back not being "good enough" and the dust in the viewfinder complaints...neither of which has any bearing whatsoever on the otherwise solid mechanicals that make up this little gem of a camera. The black paint finish does indeed wear, as they warn you about up front, but it only makes the kit look more dignified in my opinion...kind of like a little grey hair at the temples of a senior partner in the law firm.

Even though I've bounced the thing off the floor in a parking garage (not recommended!), bumped into staircases and handrails with it, shot with it in the pouring rain, and generally used it "like a Leica", it just keeps on taking great picture after great picture.

Slap a 35f2ASPH on it and it can go anywhere, anytime, and produce photographs that will amaze you.

Thanks.

Allan

[wbesz]

jtank, to answer your questions.

1. MP has a very good reputation for quality, you need not worry here.

2. Leica is very committed to look after your warranty, wherever you are, and you can post straight to the factory in Germany.

3. For using the 21mm lens, you best neede to use an external viewfinder.

Regarding the Summiluxes, my personal opinion is that unless you have very special needs for the 75 Summilux
the Summicron is more compact and therefore more likely to be used.
Focussing difficulty at the largest aperture is not much different between the two lenses, .. at 1m, +/-8mm for f1.4, and +/- 10mm for f2.0,
and so really you need a tripod.

The 35 Summilux would be a nice choice.

(And with the Summilux you do gain another f-stop when you need it at low light. )

[mikej]

Hi, jtank - here's another thumbs-up for the MP. My previous, and first, Leica was a M6TTL. Even with careful handling, I somehow bent the film winder, so I appreciate the MP design. No chance of bending. It feels like a bank vault in your hands with the precision of a fine swiss watch. No quality issues at all after about 10 months. I don't miss the automatic stuff - I like having to think about the best setup for each shot. If I don't like the results, I know what to change next time - no wondering what "program" the camera chose for me.
Cheers,
Mike

[rob_x2004]

[quote=mhanke] "the M7's well-known trouble with the automatic ISO setting"

Can anyone elablorate? Is it a contacts in the body thing. Do you need to travel with a cotton bud?
How much trauma does it cause, and what is the worst case scenario?

Regards

[ddp]

I went through an M6 and M7 before finally settling on an MP (0.72)...liked it so much I recently did an ala carte 0.85 MP. I basically came to the conclusion that I'd be happier shooting film with these guys than buying a DMR, so I basically sold off my R system gear to do it.

To me, the MP just seems a better fit than the M6 or M7 ever did. No clue why, just does. That being said - my first MP was one of the early ones with the M6 TTL dial on the back. I recently had to send it to Leica after some erratic function on the transport. I didn't lose any images, but it was sent out to Leica for repair. All good now...love these cameras.

[chris_yu]

The 5 years warranty only apply to: when you purchase the MP or M7 directly from an authorised dealer with the Schmidt group warranty card here in Hong Kong.

Chris Yu

[leica_mage]

Originally Posted by treeplanter

Outside of the "dust in the viewfinder" thing, which Leica quickly fixed, the MP has developed a reputation for outstanding quality.

Jim, could you please elaborate, as I am about to purchase an MP? What "dust in the viewfinder" thing? At what point did Leica fix it? (Is this by any chance the issue with being able to slide a thin card into the viewfinder between the rubber ring and the metal?)

Best,