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adan · 07/14/06, 07:18 PM

RE: 50 ASPH vs. 75 ASPH

I've been reorganizing my lenses in preparation for the Digital-M. Picked up a 50 'lux ASPH thinking I could use the f/1.4 aperture more than the extra focal length. And the digital crop factor would make it a nice tight 'portrait' tele. And it's 3/4 the weight of the 75 f/2.

Ooops!

The 50 1.4 ASPH is clearly less sharp close-up than the 75mm ASMA (APO-Summicron-M-ASPH) at wide apertures. And I tend to use these focal lengths in the 1 meter 'portrait' range far more than infinity, where the 50 is very good.

Swapped the 50 for a 75 ASMA within 5 days. Happier now (even though I must use the 75 with a film M4-2 with no 75 framelines for another 2 months).

If it's confusing that I got a 'new' 75 ASMA when it appeared from my previous post that I already had one - well actually, this is my THIRD. It's taken me a while to get my head around the 75mm focal length. But on the digital camera it will be a "100mm" that focuses to .7 meters - that's tighter than most SLR 85/100s. Third time's the charm.

07/14/06, 07:53 PM

BTW, here an example with the 75 Summicron @ 2,0.

One of the best lenses I ever used in my life!

wbesz · 07/14/06, 11:08 PM

Looks like I WILL have to reach for my credit card after all!

marknorton · 07/14/06, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adan

RE: 50 ASPH vs. 75 ASPH

I've been reorganizing my lenses in preparation for the Digital-M. Picked up a 50 'lux ASPH thinking I could use the f/1.4 aperture more than the extra focal length. And the digital crop factor would make it a nice tight 'portrait' tele. And it's 3/4 the weight of the 75 f/2.

Ooops!

The 50 1.4 ASPH is clearly less sharp close-up than the 75mm ASMA (APO-Summicron-M-ASPH) at wide apertures. And I tend to use these focal lengths in the 1 meter 'portrait' range far more than infinity, where the 50 is very good.

Swapped the 50 for a 75 ASMA within 5 days. Happier now (even though I must use the 75 with a film M4-2 with no 75 framelines for another 2 months).

If it's confusing that I got a 'new' 75 ASMA when it appeared from my previous post that I already had one - well actually, this is my THIRD. It's taken me a while to get my head around the 75mm focal length. But on the digital camera it will be a "100mm" that focuses to .7 meters - that's tighter than most SLR 85/100s. Third time's the charm.

Interesting comment re the 50 close-up. The whole point of that moving rear lens group is to improve close focus performance...

wbesz · 07/14/06, 11:27 PM

Andy, you say that you have done a real comparison (close up) between the 2 asph lenses, and can really see the difference?

07/14/06, 11:41 PM

William, the following shot shows Rolf Adam a fotographer from Cologne. The shot was made with 50 ASPH @ 1,4 on ACROS 100.
I can't see any difference to my Summicron 75 lens. Both are first class lenses without any restrictions. The only restriction is the film.

wbesz · 07/14/06, 11:45 PM

Thank you Wolfgang, great shot!. I am pleased this is so, I LOVE my 50 asph.

07/15/06, 12:01 AM

William, I tried both lenses in Solms and decided for the 75 ASPH cause I also love my 1,4/50 non ASPH as you can see the following picture :-)

wbesz · 07/15/06, 12:15 AM

Yes, not worth updating your current non-asp 50 when you can add another useful focal length lens. (I see you too appreciate creative use of short-depth-of-field ;-)

lambroving · 07/15/06, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagen

BTW, here an example with the 75 Summicron @ 2,0.

One of the best lenses I ever used in my life!

Wolfgang,

There are a number of good examples of the 75/2 here, but this one really captured her personality. Well done!

adan · 07/15/06, 06:34 AM

Wel, Mark and Will B., I WAS pixel-peeping at 4000dpi scans from Pan F - and what's noticeable there may not be all that noticeable in a print ...

...especially when the lighting and everything else is as - distractingly good - as it is in Wolfgang's portrait.

Plus I was at the extreme close limit for the 50 - 0.7 meter - and f/1.4, compared to 1 meter and f/2 for the 75 (for similar framing).

The flip side is that in the tests I did with the 50 ASPH vs. the last two generations of 50 'cron at 2.5 meters - the 50 ASPH was slighty better at both f/1.4 or f/2 than either of the 'crons @ f/2. (!) But the 'crons seemed to pull slightly ahead again down in the range under 1 meter.

Something LFI magazine also reported in its reviews of the current 50s and 75s over the past two issues.

I'm not sure these results are that surprising - the 75 has a very similar optical design to the 50 ASPH (including the floating element), plus the benefit of a narrower angle of view and a more conservative aperture. And it still only pulls ahead of the 'Lux in the last 60 cm or so.

adan · 07/15/06, 06:59 AM

FULL DISCLOSURE:

Perhaps I should also confess to a little bias in favor of the 75 ASMA, seeing as how I "invented" it....

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=004jpi

...sort of (note date of posting - 2 years before lens was delivered by Leica).

MP3 · 07/15/06, 08:21 AM

Hi there

Also been thnking on the same topic as which of these 2 lens shall fit better to the coming M8, esp when I'm moving a bit from the 28/50 to more closeups on kids.

Here are shots I took recently with my 50 Lux Asph on my lady model, then cropped as an "M8 simulation". The shot was taken at 1.2m then cropped from 50mm to "approx.100mm focal length". I understand it's pointless to be over critical on uploaded resolutions... but just what do you think?

Cheers
Matthew

Rolo · 07/15/06, 09:52 AM

Wolfgang,

Very nice images.

Have you got a portrait that is at 0.75 mteres to post ?

I'm wondering how close to an eye&mouth pic you can get or a babies headshot.

Regards

07/15/06, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolo

Wolfgang,

Very nice images.

Have you got a portrait that is at 0.75 mteres to post ?

I'm wondering how close to an eye&mouth pic you can get or a babies headshot.

Regards

No, I don't have one available. As far as I remember the distance for the portrait of my daughter wasn't much more than 1 meter.

If it helps I'll shoot one :-)

Rolo · 07/15/06, 10:35 PM

Thank you Wolfgang.

If you did shoot one I would be most interested to view it.

Alternatively, if anyone can identify the size of the field at the closest focus I would appreciciate the information.

A great advantage of the digital cameras I've use (not many) is their close up capability.

For my film M, I need to fill the frame more than I can with my 50mm Summilux.

Today I shot a wedding and the Minister was quite adament that there could be no movement during the service. Her reason for this is that people need to focus on it without the distraction of a photographer moving around. It seems strange that this 'important' moment cannot be recorded. Hence it's essential that I get a longer lens for my 35/50 combo and I believe the 75mm would be more useful than a 90mm.

07/16/06, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolo

Thank you Wolfgang.

If you did shoot one I would be most interested to view it.

Alternatively, if anyone can identify the size of the field at the closest focus I would appreciciate the information.

A great advantage of the digital cameras I've use (not many) is their close up capability.

For my film M, I need to fill the frame more than I can with my 50mm Summilux.

Today I shot a wedding and the Minister was quite adament that there could be no movement during the service. Her reason for this is that people need to focus on it without the distraction of a photographer moving around. It seems strange that this 'important' moment cannot be recorded. Hence it's essential that I get a longer lens for my 35/50 combo and I believe the 75mm would be more useful than a 90mm.

I'll com back with an example later on. The film is just drying.

07/16/06, 12:23 PM

Here we are.
Both pictures with 75 ASPH @ 2,0 and .75m on ACROS 100 developed in ID-11 1+1 and scanned with Vuescan on Coolscan IV @ 2900 dpi.

lambroving · 07/16/06, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagen

Here we are.
Both pictures with 75 ASPH @ 2,0 and .75m on ACROS 100 developed in ID-11 1+1 and scanned with Vuescan on Coolscan IV @ 2900 dpi.

Wolfgang,

That first shot is just great. Excellent image quality. Of course, you obviously have a very compliant model.

You should have quite a good collection of this little imp when you are done.

Rolo,

Look at my example which Allan posted at the beginning of this thread if you want to view a shallow DOF shot at less than 1 m.

Rolo · 07/16/06, 02:43 PM

Wolfgang,
Brilliant and very co-operative of you. Just what I am looking for.

Very nice model you have on hand.

I was less concerned about the maximum aperture, but it's really useful to see the effect that has as well.

Many thanks.

Cheers William, I'd spotted the Bentley pics earlier.

07/14/06, 07:18 PM	#21 (permalink)
adan Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 03/04/04 Location: Denver Posts: 949	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 RE: 50 ASPH vs. 75 ASPH I've been reorganizing my lenses in preparation for the Digital-M. Picked up a 50 'lux ASPH thinking I could use the f/1.4 aperture more than the extra focal length. And the digital crop factor would make it a nice tight 'portrait' tele. And it's 3/4 the weight of the 75 f/2. Ooops! The 50 1.4 ASPH is clearly less sharp close-up than the 75mm ASMA (APO-Summicron-M-ASPH) at wide apertures. And I tend to use these focal lengths in the 1 meter 'portrait' range far more than infinity, where the 50 is very good. Swapped the 50 for a 75 ASMA within 5 days. Happier now (even though I must use the 75 with a film M4-2 with no 75 framelines for another 2 months). If it's confusing that I got a 'new' 75 ASMA when it appeared from my previous post that I already had one - well actually, this is my THIRD. It's taken me a while to get my head around the 75mm focal length. But on the digital camera it will be a "100mm" that focuses to .7 meters - that's tighter than most SLR 85/100s. Third time's the charm. Last edited by adan : 07/14/06 at 07:26 PM.

07/14/06, 11:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
wbesz Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01/29/03 Location: Adelaide (Australia) Posts: 363	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Looks like I WILL have to reach for my credit card after all!

07/14/06, 11:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
wbesz Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01/29/03 Location: Adelaide (Australia) Posts: 363	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Andy, you say that you have done a real comparison (close up) between the 2 asph lenses, and can really see the difference?

07/14/06, 11:45 PM	#27 (permalink)
wbesz Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01/29/03 Location: Adelaide (Australia) Posts: 363	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Thank you Wolfgang, great shot!. I am pleased this is so, I LOVE my 50 asph.

07/15/06, 12:15 AM	#29 (permalink)
wbesz Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01/29/03 Location: Adelaide (Australia) Posts: 363	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Yes, not worth updating your current non-asp 50 when you can add another useful focal length lens. (I see you too appreciate creative use of short-depth-of-field ;-)

07/15/06, 06:34 AM	#31 (permalink)
adan Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 03/04/04 Location: Denver Posts: 949	Re: AW: Summicron-m 75 f2 Wel, Mark and Will B., I WAS pixel-peeping at 4000dpi scans from Pan F - and what's noticeable there may not be all that noticeable in a print ... ...especially when the lighting and everything else is as - distractingly good - as it is in Wolfgang's portrait. Plus I was at the extreme close limit for the 50 - 0.7 meter - and f/1.4, compared to 1 meter and f/2 for the 75 (for similar framing). The flip side is that in the tests I did with the 50 ASPH vs. the last two generations of 50 'cron at 2.5 meters - the 50 ASPH was slighty better at both f/1.4 or f/2 than either of the 'crons @ f/2. (!) But the 'crons seemed to pull slightly ahead again down in the range under 1 meter. Something LFI magazine also reported in its reviews of the current 50s and 75s over the past two issues. I'm not sure these results are that surprising - the 75 has a very similar optical design to the 50 ASPH (including the floating element), plus the benefit of a narrower angle of view and a more conservative aperture. And it still only pulls ahead of the 'Lux in the last 60 cm or so.

07/15/06, 06:59 AM	#32 (permalink)
adan Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 03/04/04 Location: Denver Posts: 949	Re: AW: Summicron-m 75 f2 FULL DISCLOSURE: Perhaps I should also confess to a little bias in favor of the 75 ASMA, seeing as how I "invented" it.... http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=004jpi ...sort of (note date of posting - 2 years before lens was delivered by Leica).

07/15/06, 09:52 AM	#34 (permalink)
Rolo Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 06/27/06 Location: Theatre of Dreams, UK Posts: 1,495	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Wolfgang, Very nice images. Have you got a portrait that is at 0.75 mteres to post ? I'm wondering how close to an eye&mouth pic you can get or a babies headshot. Regards

07/15/06, 10:35 PM	#36 (permalink)
Rolo Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 06/27/06 Location: Theatre of Dreams, UK Posts: 1,495	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Thank you Wolfgang. If you did shoot one I would be most interested to view it. Alternatively, if anyone can identify the size of the field at the closest focus I would appreciciate the information. A great advantage of the digital cameras I've use (not many) is their close up capability. For my film M, I need to fill the frame more than I can with my 50mm Summilux. Today I shot a wedding and the Minister was quite adament that there could be no movement during the service. Her reason for this is that people need to focus on it without the distraction of a photographer moving around. It seems strange that this 'important' moment cannot be recorded. Hence it's essential that I get a longer lens for my 35/50 combo and I believe the 75mm would be more useful than a 90mm.

07/16/06, 02:43 PM	#40 (permalink)
Rolo Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 06/27/06 Location: Theatre of Dreams, UK Posts: 1,495	Re: Summicron-m 75 f2 Wolfgang, Brilliant and very co-operative of you. Just what I am looking for. Very nice model you have on hand. I was less concerned about the maximum aperture, but it's really useful to see the effect that has as well. Many thanks. Cheers William, I'd spotted the Bentley pics earlier.

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