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Taking pictures handheld; some neuromechanical aspects


Lindolfi

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Guest Ornello

Very interesting. I have had some success hand-holding at lower speeds than are commonly considered 'doable'. The equipment does make a difference too.

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Very interesting. I have had some success hand-holding at lower speeds than are commonly considered 'doable'. The equipment does make a difference too.

 

You are not alone and perhaps my little essay explains why. If you read it, you will see that I do not make any assumptions about what is 'doable'. There are personal physiological and neural properties, which everyone has to find out themselves. It is not a contest with a commonly considered limit or with anyone elses longest shutter times! It is the craftmanship of knowing yourself.

Edited by Lindolfi
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Favourable postures and relaxed concentration ('flow') can improve, but the 'engines' of tremor and postural plus aiming control can not be trained. Those engines can be negatively influenced by things like alcohol, however.

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Absolutely, that is why some beer combines well with playing darts, within limited quantities. It helps people to get into 'flow' if they can not find it without alcohol.

 

Another remark: it is really very productive to try different postures and mental states. Most people have a good intuition for favourable postures. A favourable mental state can also be discovered by trial and error.

Edited by Lindolfi
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This is interesting. Two points occur to me:

 

• As a rifleman and pistolero (well, ex-) I was taught breathing control. We all felt this made a difference. Well, the difference could be measured in target points, the difficulty was to sort out the casuses and the effects. What is the opinion on that?

 

• Also as a rifleman, I learnt to use sling support and adapted that technique to photography. I have found it helpful. What it does is essentially fusing the shoulders and the camera into one unit; I presume it does shorten the postural chain; am I right in that?

 

Another lesson was that conscious attention to the tool (gun, camera) and on posture and the trigger finger invariably lead to bad results, usually pulling the shot. All experienced shots do agree with the Zen archers: You must be one with the target. This of course brings in the mental aspect.

 

Shooting and alcohol: Some shooters can benefit from a beer. But this just diminishes the nervousness that plays havoc with their trigger control, it does never lead to good scores, and it is bad for your coordination. The problem has to be attacked at its root.

 

LB

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Interesting. Makes me wonder though. I am quite good at handholding , gun markmanship and in my job, but hopeless at darting and ball games.

 

Darting and ball games requires something extra: feedforward. That involves, based on sensory input, to prepare a sequence of muscle activation before the effect is visible (due to the short time of the action and the flight phase in which nothing can be controlled anymore).

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Lars, good points.

 

Breathing cycle is of importance. Either consciously or just intuitively applied can be effective.

 

Indeed limiting degrees of freedom, by closing chains of (body) segments is effective and part of finding the right posture.

 

I really can not agree more with your point on attention: any attention to the detail of the action pulls the photographer out of the 'flow' and is counter productive. The target is the only thing of importance for the conscious awareness. The rest is solved by other brain parts that don't like interference from the frontal lobes of the brain. The most sensitive part for interference is the pre-motor cortex that has several functions that are in competition with each other.

 

I agree with your point on alcohol. Also judgement of performance changes both with the performance itself that may give the illusion you get better.

Edited by Lindolfi
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In gallery target shooting (which requires accuracy within extremely limited timescales and is undertaken from a standing position with no slings) a shooter can/will improve with practice - so there must be a training and exprience factor which kicks in too? As this is so, I assume from what you have said that there will probably be a limit on how much this experience can help improvement as this will be finally constrained by both the physiology and mental capacity (within this context) of the shooter? So practicing with a camera and low shutter speeds should also help increase the 'hit' rate of sharp images at low speeds?

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Absolutely Paul, agreed, including the distinction between the processes taking place, some of which can improve, others not. The learning process does help, but there is a limit. That limit varies a bit between people, but when it is reached, a tripod or other camera support can help us.

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Absolutely Paul, agreed, including the distinction between the processes taking place, some of which can improve, others not. The learning process does help, but there is a limit. That limit varies a bit between people, but when it is reached, a tripod or other camera support can help us.

 

I believe my limit has changed over time and the rate of change is increasing. Sigh.

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Assuming you aren't doing theoretical calculations based on taking photographs in the vacuum of space how is a gusty wind factored into the equation, or indeed how standing on various surfaces, like springy grass, or on the side of a hill, factored in? And I would have thought the time factor available to hold your breath and get comfortable and relaxed would be a significant variable. If you need to press the shutter to capture the moment before you are comfortable this affects the expectations of what is possible. How would that be factored in? Or are we simply taking about a perfect world?

 

Steve

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I might have missed it, but didn't see reference to "pressing" or "squeezing" techniques to depress the shutter release and the related use of tools or aids to do so, e.g., soft release setting (M9), soft release buttons, thumb accessories for holding, etc. I presume these issues fall under several categories, including inertial properties, and perhaps another extension of the stabilization concept (in addition to Lars' sling).

 

Jeff

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Guest Ornello
Given the individual physiological limits, to what extent is this trainable?

 

The main thing is not to 'jam' the shutter but squeeze it. Most motion is not "camera shake" but instantaneous movement caused by pushing the shutter too violently. The speed of the movement is the issue, not so much the amplitude.

 

Some people hold their cameras too tightly, causing their muscles to quiver at a high frequency. It's the speed of the movement, not the amplitude, as I said.

Edited by Ornello
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250swb, varying conditions are all part of the aiming task. The values you get from a steady even floor indoors are just a starting benchmark. Nobody will assume that you will be as steady in a cross gale. Turbulence of wind is hard to predict or counteract. On a steady but uneven floor you have a better chance, since you can adjust your posture and even impedance of your legs to the surface. It has been measured that people do this without knowing it.

 

You understand that the first steps I wrote down in my short essay will not produce definitive results for the wildly varying conditions we may want to take photographs in. It is up to you and the 1.5 liter of living jelly inside your skull to make the best of it.

 

Jeff S. Indeed the shutter release action is important, but only beginners tend to not only press the button but also the whole camera down. The control of your finger and the sensory interplay with the steel and springiness of the button is remarkable. The test whether you do it right is just attach a small laserpointer to your camera and see wether the wanderings of the dot does anything special at the release of the button. If you do it right, you see nothing happening.

 

Ornello, I disagree: I've done the experiment with the laser pointer and extended it with an experiment with a 3D acceleration transducer and it appears you don't see the pressing of the shutter in the midst of the complex motion that is due to all the processes I wrote about in my first posting. Test was done with three experienced photographers and an M9.

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Guest Ornello
250swb, varying conditions are all part of the aiming task. The values you get from a steady even floor indoors are just a starting benchmark. Nobody will assume that you will be as steady in a cross gale. Turbulence of wind is hard to predict or counteract. On a steady but uneven floor you have a better chance, since you can adjust your posture and even impedance of your legs to the surface. It has been measured that people do this without knowing it.

 

You understand that the first steps I wrote down in my short essay will not produce definitive results for the wildly varying conditions we may want to take photographs in. It is up to you and the 1.5 liter of living jelly inside your skull to make the best of it.

 

Jeff S. Indeed the shutter release action is important, but only beginners tend to not only press the button but also the whole camera down. The control of your finger and the sensory interplay with the steel and springiness of the button is remarkable. The test whether you do it right is just attach a small laserpointer to your camera and see wether the wanderings of the dot does anything special at the release of the button. If you do it right, you see nothing happening.

 

Ornello, I disagree: I've done the experiment with the laser pointer and extended it with an experiment with a 3D acceleration transducer and it appears you don't see the pressing of the shutter in the midst of the complex motion that is due to all the processes I wrote about in my first posting. Test was done with three experienced photographers and an M9.

 

I am not following you. I said the main causes of blurry photos are:

 

1) Too much of a jab on the shutter release, a high velocity movement.

2) Gripping the camera too tightly, which causes tremors, which are high in velocity too.

 

It's the (angular) velocity of the movement that matters most. Do your measurements take that into account?

 

"No sudden moves, see...!"

 

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/07/gun1.jpg

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