90mm Elmarit R vs.100mm APO Macro/Makro Elmarit R

[wilfredo]

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I currently own a 90mm Elmarit R which I use on my Canon 5D Mark II, and have no complaints about the lens, it is very sharp wide open, and has a very lovely bokeh. How much better is the 100mm Elmarit APO Macro/Makro? Have there been any newer designs since it was introduced in 1987? Does it require the "Elpro" lens attachment in order to be used as a macro lens?

[wildlightphoto]

I currently own a 90mm Elmarit R which I use on my Canon 5D Mark II, and have no complaints about the lens, it is very sharp wide open, and has a very lovely bokeh. How much better is the 100mm Elmarit APO Macro/Makro? Have there been any newer designs since it was introduced in 1987? Does it require the "Elpro" lens attachment in order to be used as a macro lens?

 

I can't comment on the 'better' question, but the ELPRO is used only for images between 1:2 and 1:1 magnification. The lens by itself will focus from infinity to 1:2.

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[4X5B&W]

Wilfredo, I had a 90 Elmarit (55mm filter version) that was a fabulous lens, then had the chance to buy 100 Apo Macro, and did a brief test that I thought would play to the strengths of the 90 lens.

 

With a heavy duty Gitzo tripod, with an Arca Swiss ballhead, mirror lock-up on distant images, using Kodachrome and a high magnification loupe, I found the 100 outperformed the 90.

 

Feeling that if the 100 could outperform the 90 for distant images, there was no need to test the lenses at closer distances that should favour the 100 Apo.

 

So I sold the 90 and still have the 100 Apo Macro......a truly exceptional lens.

[tobey bilek]

100 is better at distance.

 

100 is better by a lot up close.

 

The 90 is still a decent lens so that gives you an idea how good the 100 is. My copy will pick up skin texture on a baby and no 90 will do that. By nature, don`t photograph older women with it unless you are a skilled retoucher.

 

To save money, get an original 90 2.8 which is not as good at 2.8 but lots better in the close range. Later issues of the original optical formula came in 55 mm rather than ser 7.

Edited July 12, 2010 by tobey bilek

[wilfredo]

As I said at the beginning of this thread, I have 90mm Elmarit R. I also have an 85mm Zeiss, also a great performer, but I am considering selling both to get the 100mm Elmarit.

[integrale]

I have the 90mm as well as the APO-100mm.

 

I have always loved the 90 Elmarit-R, but the APO-100 stands head and shoulders above it. The only downsied is the very long focus throw (?); almost 720 degrees from end to end, but it gives you marvelous precision in macro work...

 

As stated above the APO-100 will do 1:2 macro without the Elpro:

 

[masjah]

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I've posted this pic before, but it illustrates the performance of the 100 Macro R. This is really a rather small needle, with relatively fine thread

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[wilfredo]

The Macro capability is truly amazing. If I get this lens I will often use it as a portrait lens. Not for glamour shots mind you. How many of you use it as a portrait lens in real life situations?

[integrale]

Like this?

 

[farnz]

Wilfredo,

 

I have both the 90 Elmarit and the 100 APO Macro and except for my 50 Summilux-M asph this lens is the last lens I would ever part with; cold, dead hands etc.

 

On numerous occasions I've heard this lens simply referred to as the best macro lens ever made and although I wouldn't put myself forward as a judge, I've never heard anyone try to make a case against it.

 

Another feather in its cap is that with the APO 2x teleconverter you have (I think the world's only) 200mm APO macro lens.

 

Also, the 5D2's Live View allows you the opportunity to magnify the scene by 10 times to guarantee nailing focus.

 

Here's a couple of shots with my 5D2 and 100 f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R.

 

 

Pete.

 

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[wilfredo]

Wow! These samples get even more amazing. I did some tests this morning to compare my 90 Elmarit to my 85mm Zeiss and found that the Elmarit was sharper than the Zeiss @f/2.8. Both were set to f/2.8. The Elmarit bokeh was more pleasing to me, but that did not surprise me. Wide open @f1.4 the Zeiss looks good, but not excellent.

 

I love the 90mm Elmarit but think I will be selling both these lenses, and starting the search for a minty 100mm Elmarit. What is the filter size for the 100mm?

[wildlightphoto]

What is the filter size for the 100mm?

 

60mm.

 

another sample:

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

"With a heavy duty Gitzo tripod, with an Arca Swiss ballhead, mirror lock-up on distant images, using Kodachrome and a high magnification loupe, I found the 100 outperformed the 90."

 

Under these circumstances it is correct to say that the 100 outperform the 90...

 

Under 'normal' use with a 100 iso (slide) film there will be in practice no big difference in quality.

 

Only in price:cool:

 

The 100 APO is in the first place a macro lens, and in that way you can't compare it with the 90. I do find the 100 APO rather big in the hands with my Leicaflex SL (2). With the Elmarit 2,8/90 it is more in balance with the camera body.

 

When you have the idea to buy the 100 APO macro I should also keep the Elmarit 2,8/90.

I do find the Elmarit 90 more convenient for making (portrait) photos on street because this lens is not too big!

Edited July 12, 2010 by Joop van Heijgen

[farnz]

... Under 'normal' use with a 100 iso (slide) film there will be in practice no big difference in quality. ...

I suppose it depends whether Wilfredo considers the absence of chromatic aberration, higher resolving power and much finer adjustment offerred by the longer throw to be significant differences.

 

I agree that the 90 Elmarit is a superb lens in its own right and there's perhaps little point in getting rid of it because of the small return at the moment and, as you rightly point out, it's small and light.

 

Pete.

[james.liam]

I don't own the 90 but do own the 100 APO. Very long, very precise focus throw, it is not compact like the 90. It excels in what it was designed to do; macro 1:2, subjects at near distances. Cumbersome to lug around for long periods (I've done it and it wears on you) or focus rapidly for PJ and street shooting. I wouldn't get rid of both your Zeiss 85 and Leica 90 Elmarit; if you can afford it, keep one. The 100 can be had for about $1200 these days. The 90 Summicron APO which I've used once is compact (no larger than a 50) and the focus ring smooth and turns fast, better suited for moving objects, similar in size and ergonomiics to the pre-APO 90 and not too far off from the Emarit 90. The Zeiss 85/1.4 used @ f/2 is probably great and a full stop faster. This extra stop over the 90 & 100 Elmarits does come in handy.

 

The 100's optical design hasn't changed since it's introduction only differing in the mount, either 3-CAM or ROM.

Edited July 13, 2010 by james.liam

[wilfredo]

The comments posted here are very helpful, and cover a wide spectrum. I think that for the moment I will hold onto the 90mm Emarit. I hardly do any Macro shooting so it really isn't a big priority for me. I did some tests to compare the 85mm Zeiss to the 90mm Elmarit and found the Elmarit to be sharper. I can also get closer to the subject with the Elmarit. This is nothing scientific, but sufficient for me. I don't really need the extra speed so I will probably sell the Zeiss, and keep the Elmarit for the moment. I could keep both but don't really like the clutter.

 

The first shot posted here is with the 90mm Elmarit, the second is with the 85mm Zeiss, both @f/2.8. The third is my favorite Seagull portrait, done with the 90mm Elmarit. I have to say, I do like the compact size of the 90mm Elmarit on a Canon 5D II. I only paid about $600.00 for this lens, it has been the best deal I've gotten on a Leica lens to date. It makes my recent purchase of a brand new 50mm Summilux M ASPH easier to digest.

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Edited July 14, 2010 by wilfredo

[geaibleu]

We are dangerously close to heresy here, dear Reverend!

Your question would have some merit, if, and only if, it were to be directed at the overlapping areas which these 2 lenses may have in common, ie from say 4ft to infinity.

The real question should thus be: which of these 2 lenses will give me more use and of course more artistic pleasure by owning one or the other.

The real answer is subordinate to what you preferred targets are. In other words if close-ups are your bag then sure enough the 100! If portraits are your passion, then the 90!

Compromises are seldom satisfying. The real thing (despite some Pride parades to claim the opposite) is,( in my considered opinion of course) by far preferable.

By the way, the more recent 90 Apo-Asph would have my preference over the 90 Elmarit...

In any event what should be rembered is that regardless of the optics you use, what matters most is the light!!!!

[Joop van Heijgen]

@Wilfredo

 

" hardly do any Macro shooting so it really isn't a big priority for me."

 

A very good and not expensive alternative is the Macro-Elmarit 2,8/60.

 

This lens is very universal in use, in fact a standard lens with the qualities of the R 2,0/50 Summicron but corrected for the macro and close-up use.

The bokeh for 'normal' and macro use is very nice (Leica's one of their best lenses) and can compete with many 'standard' lenses, even with the M Leica 50 mm line:)

 

It will fit very good on your Canon 5D II and is not heavy in weight.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Joop van Heijgen

[wilfredo]

Joop,

 

Do you have any samples done with the 60mm Elmarit? Just curious.

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[Joop van Heijgen]

Any samples done with the 60mm Elmarit:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/tier-natur/129409-isn-das.html

 

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http://www.footbig.com/album/1756/39764

 

http://www.leitax.com/Feedback/Feedback%20Canon/index.html

 

 

Joop

Edited July 20, 2010 by Joop van Heijgen