Elmarit 24 2.8 or Lux 35.1.4?

[wattsy]

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So if you can't get results that please you from the excellent lenses you've owned so far, I suspect it may be because your skills don't yet match your vision - in which case yet another change of lens would be of little help.

 

I'm afraid I agree. Chucking money at gear is rarely a route to more interesting photographs though we've all done it at one time or another. I'm sure your Leica dealer loves you.

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[shootinglulu]

Carsten, thanks. I plan on getting the Lux now, i think it will be the right way for me as this lens would be on my cam most of the time and i do carry it with me most of the time so the size of the Nokton was an issue. I was planning on ordering the lens from Robert White,near me in Dorset, i don't think they would be keen on me handling and testing a new lens on my camera, i see how important it would be though. I wonder if any of the London retailers have demo lenses to try out. I'll look into it. Thanks a lot for pointing that out, i think you could have averted another lens dillema.

Jay thanks for that, i may well buy a m9 m15.. in the future, another reason to go with the Lux and unfortunately i can't afford to keep the 28 Cron as well as the Lux plus a 75 which i think would be nice.

Kind regards and thankyou

Lucy

[ChrisC]

.... I plan on getting the Lux now, i think it will be the right way for me as this lens would be on my cam most of the time......

 

Lucy - I am one who doesn't have a fascination with f1.4 lenses for general use. The advocates of wide open shooting in good light mostly tell me what their lens thinks not what they as photographers think, and of all the great photographs I have studied, I am yet to be stopped in my tracks by a master photographer's employment of out of focus rendering. That being said I am therefore more of an 'F8 and be there' sort of photographer who generally thinks that photography is more interesting when the world is photographed in focus by focussed photographers.

 

The cost of these ultra wide-open lenses is considerable; in weight, viewfinder interruption, performance stopped down from wide open, and price. I am not alone in being a fan of small,light, and yes; slower lenses [if such a thing were possible, a lens optimised for fabulous performance at f16 would be very desirable].

 

OK, it's Sunday here in the UK, and Robert White isn't open until Monday, so I thought that I'd throw a spanner in the works for your consideration. The only reason, surely, for having an f1.4 lens is to shoot at f1.4. You already have a fabulous lens but have possibly been seduced by tiny web Jpegs with out of focus 'character' [or blur as I'd prefer to call it]. But bear in mind that blur might look interesting to you at tiny web size, but it will mostly look boring and unaccomplished in an exhibition print. For very low light photography a fast lens may well be optimal if a tripod cannot be used, but for general photography I think f1.4 lenses and faster are a poor choice.

 

Tim Ashley had dreadful problems with his 35mm Summilux. There is a long thread he started on it's issues which you really should read. My [very] quick search didn't find the thread, but --

 

HERE :

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/28147-sean-reid-35mm-lenses-m8.html

 

Tim Ashley wrote

 

...... neither of my 35 luxes were backfocussers, just focus shifters. As confirmed by Solms. And yet I noticed the backfocus behaviour in everyday use and before I knew even to look for it when I did a shoot in Venice earlier this year. I would get back to my hotel, look at the shots at 100% on screen, and most of my 50 lux shots were crispy sharp but a lot of the 35 lux shots were not quite there......

 

Just a thought, and a bit of spanner worship on a Sunday.

 

................. Chris

[Indecisive]

Carsten, thanks. I plan on getting the Lux now, i think it will be the right way for me as this lens would be on my cam most of the time and i do carry it with me most of the time so the size of the Nokton was an issue. I was planning on ordering the lens from Robert White,near me in Dorset, i don't think they would be keen on me handling and testing a new lens on my camera, i see how important it would be though. I wonder if any of the London retailers have demo lenses to try out. I'll look into it. Thanks a lot for pointing that out, i think you could have averted another lens dillema.

Jay thanks for that, i may well buy a m9 m15.. in the future, another reason to go with the Lux and unfortunately i can't afford to keep the 28 Cron as well as the Lux plus a 75 which i think would be nice.

Kind regards and thankyou

Lucy

 

 

Hi there .. Leica recently opened a showroom in Mayfair (Leica Camera AG - Home). They are really nice in there (when compared to the other london dealers with the exception of RG Lewis who are really down to earth) and will let you try the equipment on their premises. No hard selling either and the staff are first class (rare in London)

[carstenw]

I don't live in England, but I have heard that Robert White is expensive. Have you tried Red Dot Cameras?

 

Red Dot Cameras - Leica Cameras, Leica Binoculars, Metz Flashguns, Manfrotto Tripods, Leitz

 

They have a good reputation. Either way, a large Leica dealer is more likely to have several copies of the 35 Lux ASPH to try out. Be sure to get someone who is happy to help you find the best copy. Having a focus-shifting lens can be very frustrating.

 

By the way, on the M8, the 35 Lux ASPH is my favorite lens. I use it more than any other, and perhaps even more than all my others combined. On the M9, I would use the 50 Lux ASPH though. Others prefer the 35mm-effective view, and a 24 or 28 would be more appropriate for them. I do own the 28 Cron, and I love the look, but to be honest, on the M8 it does very little for me and I barely use it. I am keeping it for use on the M9, once I have the money to get one.

 

Chris is right that if you don't plan to use the 35 Lux ASPH wide open very much, another lens would make more sense. The 35 Cron ASPH is very sharp, very compact, buttery smooth, and a whole lot cheaper. I personally prefer the 35 Lux ASPH, but it is personal. Here is a thread I once started about this very topic:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/29964-35-lux-asph-vs-35-cron.html

 

By the way, if money is no object, 28/50 is a great pair, and the 50 Lux ASPH is absolutely fabulous. If you really want a 35, a 75 could make a nice pair with it. Going wider, 21/28/50 or 24/35/75 are nice sets.

[farnz]

Hi there .. Leica recently opened a showroom in Mayfair (Leica Camera AG - Home). They are really nice in there (when compared to the other london dealers with the exception of RG Lewis who are really down to earth) and will let you try the equipment on their premises. No hard selling either and the staff are first class (rare in London)

I regret that I have to strongly disagree with your experiences of London dealers in the cases of Red Dot Cameras, Richard Caplan and Aperture. I've visited all of them many times and not experienced hard-selling and all are more than happy to let you try out lenses before you buy. Sure, they're unlikely to let you take a lens home for a week to try before you buy but that's hardly surprising.

 

The knowledge and advice offered by Ivor at Red Dot in particular is sound and in his potential customers' interests and is based on many years of experience as a Leica owner and many years as manager of a former Leica Premier dealership in London.

 

I don't feel that your sweeping generalisation is accurate or helpful. Perhaps you would care to relate the negative experiences on which your statement appears to be based?

 

Pete.

[shootinglulu]

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Thanks very much for the advice.

Chris, I hate sundays when Robert White are closed.. I spend most days in there buying lenses. (Actually, i can't do any lens buying until i've sold the Cron, )

 

It is interesting what you say, it's true, large exhibition prints don't usually make a lot of use of large oof areas or vignetting, except perhaps with the portrait. The use of these tecniques works well in smaller computer images?! Interesting.. Actually, i've always thought that when i am a braver and better photographer, my lenses will be wider and the photographs will tell a story, rather than relying on the long lens and i bet old HCB didn't bang on about bokeh.

 

I would like my 50 or 75 lengths (on the M8) to have nice dof for picking people out of a crowd and for portraits. The 35 lux looks to have a lovely richness to it and it's speed would be useful indoors, where i would mostly use it ,(english winter time!). The dof is less vital with wider lenses but still nice to have as i mostly post on the web.

 

It would be interesting to know the proportion of people who have had focusing issues with the 35 Lux:rolleyes:. Any way, i'll be taking a trip up to London sometime to try some out.

Thanks all very much again.

Lucy

[Indecisive]

I regret that I have to strongly disagree with your experiences of London dealers in the cases of Red Dot Cameras, Richard Caplan and Aperture. I've visited all of them many times and not experienced hard-selling and all are more than happy to let you try out lenses before you buy. Sure, they're unlikely to let you take a lens home for a week to try before you buy but that's hardly surprising.

 

The knowledge and advice offered by Ivor at Red Dot in particular is sound and in his potential customers' interests and is based on many years of experience as a Leica owner and many years as manager of a former Leica Premier dealership in London.

 

I don't feel that your sweeping generalisation is accurate or helpful. Perhaps you would care to relate the negative experiences on which your statement appears to be based?

 

Pete.

 

 

Very strong response Pete. Not sure how I manage to press your "wrong" button.

 

You comment "Sure, they're unlikely to let you take a lens home for a week to try before you buy but that's hardly surprising" .. is so condescending I am still not sure how an adult could write something like that. I am wondering whether you would be so rude and nasty when speaking to somone in person?

 

I am being polite not to name those other establishments as that was not the purpose of my post. Those shops were far less good than Leica Mayfair or RG Lewis.

 

The lady seem to be worried that their might not be a shop that will allow her to try before she bought. So I was directing her to a place where I had first hand experience of trying some equipment.

 

I just say it as I see it. If that upset you then I am sorry but I reread my post and it is neither rude nor offensive. So I am still a bit miffed as to why you are so rude?

[farnz]

Very strong response Pete. Not sure how I manage to press your "wrong" button.

 

You comment "Sure, they're unlikely to let you take a lens home for a week to try before you buy but that's hardly surprising" .. is so condescending I am still not sure how an adult could write something like that. I am wondering whether you would be so rude and nasty when speaking to somone in person?

 

I am being polite not to name those other establishments as that was not the purpose of my post. Those shops were far less good than Leica Mayfair or RG Lewis.

 

The lady seem to be worried that their might not be a shop that will allow her to try before she bought. So I was directing her to a place where I had first hand experience of trying some equipment.

 

I just say it as I see it. If that upset you then I am sorry but I reread my post and it is neither rude nor offensive. So I am still a bit miffed as to why you are so rude?

It's a shame that you found my post rude because that was not my intention and I don't think it was.

 

By roundly comparing all other London dealers (apart from RG Lewis) to Leica Mayfair by inference you implied that all other London dealers are:

1. not nice

2. not down to earth

3. will not let you try equipment on their premises

4. use hard selling tactics.

 

This may not have been your intention but that was the way it read to me and I wanted to set matters straight.

 

You may not be aware that we all enjoy this valuable website free of charge partly owing to the advertising revenue injected by some London dealers and it seemed unreasonable to me that you have named two dealers who don't advertise here at the expense of those who do. Hence my response. If you search on Red Dot, for instance, you will see multiple posts which provide examples of positive experiences but there but none (as far as I am aware) to the negative.

 

I feel that owing to the internet's identity-less nature and its enormous potential audience it is all too easy to impugn persons' or companys' reputations (unwittingly or deliberately) in such a way that is damaging to the parties concerned and virtually impossible for them to rectify. Where I see criticism unjustly levelled in this way I feel it is my duty to do what I can to help rectify the situation.

 

Pete.

[carstenw]

FWIW, I didn't think that Pete was being rude. You implied that there was only one good shop in London, and Pete replied that he thought there were several. Different people have different experiences. Different days even matter.

[Indecisive]

It's a shame that you found my post rude because that was not my intention and I don't think it was.

 

By roundly comparing all other London dealers (apart from RG Lewis) to Leica Mayfair by inference you implied that all other London dealers are:

1. not nice

2. not down to earth

3. will not let you try equipment on their premises

4. use hard selling tactics.

 

This may not have been your intention but that was the way it read to me and I wanted to set matters straight.

 

You may not be aware that we all enjoy this valuable website free of charge partly owing to the advertising revenue injected by some London dealers and it seemed unreasonable to me that you have named two dealers who don't advertise here at the expense of those who do. Hence my response. If you search on Red Dot, for instance, you will see multiple posts which provide examples of positive experiences but there but none (as far as I am aware) to the negative.

 

I feel that owing to the internet's identity-less nature and its enormous potential audience it is all too easy to impugn persons' or companys' reputations (unwittingly or deliberately) in such a way that is damaging to the parties concerned and virtually impossible for them to rectify. Where I see criticism unjustly levelled in this way I feel it is my duty to do what I can to help rectify the situation.

 

Pete.

 

 

I agree with your point hence I did not name the companies. However you are right in "reading into what I meant". Possibly point 4 is a tad strong. More a sense of that point 3 wasn't offered because they didn't think you were going to buy. Just as a reference, I behave in the same way in all the shops. I ask lots of questions in a polite and courteous manner.

 

If this is a commercially sponsored forum where you aren't allowed to comment negatively on those sponsors then I will take note.

 

I am more than happy for the moderators of this forum to edit my initial post to just say that the shop in Mayfair (which is not a dealer but a wholly owned shop by Leica) will let you try all their equipment on the premises. I am also happy for them to remove my subsequent posts on this thread, as I have made it known to you how I felt about your condescending comments. That is final for me.

[jaay]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the negative comments with regards to using fast lenses - although you dont typically see many gallery prints with a lot of OOF areas other artistic areas use them a lot. For example many cinematographers I've worked with on movies shoot everthing wide open on wide, normal and tele lenses. They do this even on bright days and stack enough ND filters to achieve this. The Arri master primes are designed to be shot wide open at f1.3.