Glass line-up for M9 - Please help...

[jagsiva]

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I am simplifying my life by getting rid of about half my Canon gear and getting a rangefinder. I just spent a week lugging a 5DII and 1DSIII with a bunch of lenses through the Canadian Rockies, and just before that for 2 weeks in a Kayak on the north shore of superior -- NOT FUN!

 

A FF Leica was what I was waiting for and it has finally arrived. Having said this, I am totally overwhelmed by the choices for M-mount lenses -- used, new, CV, Zeiss, Leica etc.etc.

 

On canon I mostly shoot the L primes. Life was simple, you paid a reasonable (yes it seems reasonable now that I'm look at Leica ) amount for what was ususally the best/only option available at the aperture/focal length you were looking for. Life in M mount appears to be not so simple...choices, choices....

 

The two line-ups I have have come up with are new Zeiss or Leica. I shoot a bit of everything, but no sports/wildlife with this setup. Lots of indoor/outdoor candids and landscapes.

 

Zeiss:

Distagon T* 4/18 ZM

Biogon T* 2,8/21 ZM

Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM

Biogon T* 2,8/28 ZM

Biogon T* 2/35 ZM

Planar T* 2/50 ZM

Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM

 

Leica:

LEICA SUPER-ELMAR-M 18 mm f/3.8 ASPH.

LEICA SUMMILUX-M 24 mm f/1.4 ASPH.

LEICA SUMMILUX-M 35 mm f/1.4 ASPH.

LEICA SUMMILUX-M 50 mm f/1.4 ASPH.

LEICA APO-SUMMICRON-M 90 mm f/2 ASPH.

 

The leica setup will cost me over 2x the zeiss setup (approx 8K vs. 20K).

 

In the Canon world, the quality between 3rd party lenses such as Sigma and Tamron and Canon L was quite significant, at least for me. This was not only in image quality, but also handling and ergonomics. Ditto for the differences between L and the lesser Canons. It was also easy, at least for me, to justify the 3-4x price difference between say a 35/F2 and a 35LF1.4 or a 50F1.4 and a 50LF1.2

 

However, from what I have read regarding Leica vs. Zeiss, things dont seem so clear cut. In fact, most comparisons end with a personal preference of the "Leica look" vs. the "Zeiss look"

 

Have any of you been through this process. Leaving the brand loyalty etc. aside, from a pure performance/handling/build quality standpoint, what was your preference.

 

Sorry for sounding so newb here, but I guess I am a newb to this side of the world...

 

BTW, I used a Royal Photagraphic Society Special Edition M6 with 50 Summicron for a while, and just fell in love with it. So when the M9 was announced, the switch was a no-brainer.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jag

[thrice]

Jag,

 

You have a long time to think about it unless you've already pre-ordered your M9

 

You've chosen the 24 summilux, the 24 elmarit asph or the 24 elmar asph would serve you better for landscapes, unless you need the ultra-wide fast option. Be aware that you will need an auxiliary finder with anything wider than 28mm (35mm if you wear glasses) on the M9.

 

I personally think you should see this as a simplification of your shooting, rather than adding another elaborate system to it. Indoor/outdoor candids and landscapes strikes me as an 18/21, 35 and 75 setup. Since you seem to have the pennies to spend, I would go for:

 

18 Super-Elmar-M ASPH OR 21mm ZM Biogon (c-biogon if you want 0 distortion and smaller size at the expense of 1.3? stops)

 

35mm Summilux-M ASPH (be aware there is focus shift with this lens) OR 35mm Summicron-M ASPH (smaller - no focus shift - one stop slower)

 

75mm APO-Summicron-M ASPH

 

After all, no one enjoys swapping lenses, this way you'd have a single lens for each purpose. One for wide landscapes (obviously the other two can be used here too), one for up close candid portraits, and one for tighter portraits.

[fefe]

One thing to remember when looking at the leica lenses, the one with a smaller maximal apperture (f/2 instead of f1.4) are not lower quality than their more expensive parts. They will be as sharp at equivalent apertures or sometimes sharper. The only thing you loose is 1 or more stop of light. So in all the focals you list you can also look at the f/2, f/2.5, f/2.8 options with Leica which are significantly cheaper than the Summiluxes.

 

I am very happy with my 35mm Summicron Asph by exemple, it is sharp across the frame even wide open, very small, has no focusing issues...

[tom0511]

I am not a Leica only loyal (own for example both Zeiss and Leica 50mm M-lenses)

However I would prefer Leica 1) because its coded which makes life easier

Also I believe that Leica draws somewhat warmer what I do like.

Regarding your setup I also would ask myself if you really need f1.4 in a 24mm lens.

So maybe same setup, but with a 24/2.8 and 90/2.5 would safe you a lot of money and not being much (if any) compromise IMO.

[lars_bergquist]

I am up to my knees in M lenses, so starting again from square one is difficult to imagine. But first, I would second Fefe in pointing out that there are really no different 'quality grades' in Leica lenses. The Summarit line is really excellent, both optically and mechanically. Summicron and Summilux mean not better, only faster. Zeiss offer some really nice lenses at comparable prices, but coding is of course a minor hassle.

 

I understand that your interest is in what may be called 'general outdoor photography': Little or no wildlife, two, four, six or eight legged. You do also want to simplify your photographic life. My advice is: Try to get rid of the SLR "everything plus the kitchen sink" thinking. With a RF camera, you learn to see and work differently. With, say, a 90mm on the camera, you see the world through your '90mm eyes', and the picture is composed, and the plane of maximum focus selected, before you even raise the camera to your eye. M photography is basically action photography.

 

So you are best served by a somewhat minimalist kit. That may well be the classical photojournalist one: In modern terms, a f:2 35mm for overviews, human interactions, balanced landscapes etc., and a f:2.5 or 2.8 (you will NOT need more speed!) 90mm for detail. You can very well add a really wide lens, 21 or 18mm, and as you will largely use that lens out of doors, speed is no requirement. -- 90 + 50 + 28 or 24 and possibly 18mm is also an option, if you do love 50mm.

 

I would definitely advise you not to consider lugging around lenses with adjacent focal lengths such as 24 ... 28 ... 35 ... 50 ...mm. As I said before, you adjust your 'seeing' to the lens you have mounted. The alternative is to lose good pictures while you are standing with one lens in each hand. Also, your spinal column is precious, and fragile. I would never dream of walking out with more kit than one body (plus mine own, natch) and three lenses. Usually it is just two lenses. Very often it is one. Hope this is helpful.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar

[chris_tribble]

Minimal can be good and the "modern classic" of 28 cron asph /50 lux asph / and 90 cron asph setup became classic for a lot of good reasons - and it gives you three of the best lenses Leica have ever made. I have these + the 35 cron pre-asph mk IV if I want a SINGLE lens setup for "I'm not here to do photography but I want a camera with me anyway" situations.

 

After that it's a case of what other kinds of work you like to do. I enjoy using the 18 ZM Distagon and the 21 Elmarit - if I had to get rid of one I'd probably dump the Zeiss as I enjoy the f2.8 and control of DOF on the 21. At the other end I'll always hold on to the 135 apo telyt. 24? Never did get on with that lens length. 75? On full frame it's too short or too long for my way of working. I've sold my 75 cron asph - a beautiful lens but I wasn't using it.

 

Just my 2c.

[wattsy]

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Does sound like a lot of lenses to be worrying about. I guess we all approach things differently but I like to work with only a single lens where possible (I can shoot an entire event with either a 35 or 50 on an M8) and have lenses that just gather dust (metaphorically speaking). I've no idea about your preferences but would suggest that an 18, 35 and 90 would be a fine set of lenses for the full frame M9.

[michael_b_elmer]

My advice is to stick to Leica lenses - they will never disappoint you, and you kan keep them for the rest of your life or later trade them into new and even better Leica lenses.

 

However, it is probably not advisable to start with such a big battery of lenses.

 

The collection of Leica glass that you consider to acquire is surprising i two ways. Firstly, in your selection of focal lengths you are missing 28 and 75 mm lenses, even though the viewfinder of the M9 has framelines for those focal lengths, and you have added the 24 and 18 mm WA FL's for which you will need external finders. Secondly, you have generally chosen lenses with the the biggest opening in each FL (apart from 50 mm) and , thus, with the highest price tag.

 

Why not acquire one lens at a time (starting with the phantastic 1.4/50) and get to know it well before acquiring the next lens - or at least start with the traditional focal lengths (35, 50 and 90)?

 

The lenses you have chosen are all extremely good, but in order to have money for the focal lengths that you will be missing, I suggest the following list of lenses, which IMHO will in practice serve you at least as well as the lenses you propose:

 

Summilux 1.4/50 asph (as said a phantastic lens)

Summicron 2.0/35 asph (at least as good as the 1.4/35 A and without focus shift problems)

Summicron 2.0/28 asph (you will need this focal length, and this lens is excellent)

Summicron 2.0/75 asph (a phantastic lens, also for portraits)

Macro-Elmar 4.0/90 asph (light weight and most versatile, this lens will find much more practical use than the heavy 2.0/90 asph)

 

If you need something more wideangled I would prefer the 2.8/24 Elmarit asph over the 1.4/24 asph. If you want extreme wide angle and bokeh at the same time, go instead for the 21/1.4 asph, which is wonderful but heavy and very expensive. I have nothing bad to say about the 3.8/18 asph, but perhaps this should wait until you know the other lenses.

[ChrisC]

Jag - As a couple of others have suggested; far too many lenses.

 

It looks to me as if

[ChrisC]

Jag - As a couple of others have suggested; far too many lenses.

 

It looks to me as if you are converting SLR lens habits to rangefinder lens needs, and I think rangefinder camera working is well suited to not changing lenses. I'd say start with one lens [35mm or 50mm] and work with your eyes and feet and get the utmost out of that lens and don't buy another until you absolutely have to. One lens, talent, and get on with it; that's all that's needed.

 

.................. Chris

[Craftsman]

I agree that you're thinking too far ahead. I would get two lens from your list first. Say a 50 and 24, or a 50 and 90 and work with those. adding as you see the need. I shoot landscapes with mostly a .85MP, a 50mm Summicron and a 90mm Elmarit -M. There is very little need if any for the fast Leica lenses in outdoor photography. Save yourself some money.

[Steve Ash]

If I would start from scratch I would go for two lenses first only. My choice would be summilux 24 & 50.

Regards Steve

[lars_bergquist]

Starting with just one lens, learning it and then building on that is a very good idea. You should however be prepared to exchange your 'foundation stone' for a different one if the subsequent edifice would not suit you, for your first lens will largely dictate your second lens, and so forth ...

 

It is a good idea to start out with second hand Leica lenses, which can be had in fine condition and are safe to buy from reputable dealers. If you change your mind later, or want to upgrade, you will lose little money, because somebody else will already have taken the 'first use depreciation', which is always the biggest and the fastest, just as when you sit in your brand new car for the first time. But a well kept Leica lens will keep working just fine for generations. Some people use half-century old lenses because they like the high grade but slightly 'old time' look they give the pictures. Lots of quite old lenses can be retro-coded by Leica.

 

The old man again

[tpkoester]

Hello everybody,

 

I'm new to the digital Leica M world since a month or so.

 

I have a M9 with a new Elmarit 28 Asph and a late nineties Summicron 50 which I already use on my M3. I bought the 28 as a starter in wide-angle world. I thought about the 24 Elmarit but then I would have carried a separate viewfinder ;-) So far the 28 Elmarit is all I needed coming from the digital APS-C Nikon world.

 

I switched in the first week of the M9 and never regret. My Nikon D300 with Nikkor 2/200mm is still my favorite for sports - my son plays american football :-) But all the rest people and landscape is very well done with my new combination - my acid test will be my upcoming florida trip.

 

My recommendation is to start with a limited number of glasses and see what You really use. In the beginning of my Nikon time I spend so much money on lenses which I sold later on - not much loss at all as I only bought used lenses. But I think I spend to much time on buying, changing and testing lenses and missed the time to shoot good pictures as I was stuck in the technicalities of D-SLRs.

 

I'm thinking about a Summicron or even a Summilux 35 in the future as I used the goggled Summicron 35 from 1961 on my Leica M3 pretty often. So far I haven't missed it on my M9.

 

Even though I'm not an expert I advise everyone on a limited set of lenses as a starter. Get used to

 

ciao tpk

[lars_bergquist]

Tpk, you have started out on the right foot. In my opinion, we do practically never need Summilux-speed lenses ('need' as distinct from 'want') so I would go for the 35mm Summicron, not the Summilux. But the combination of 28 + 50mm is a very practical one, especially for 'combat in built-up areas'. You will want something longer for the Great Outdoors sometime in the future, I presume. In that case, someting like the 90mm Summarit would fill the bill admirably.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar

[delander †]

I'd drop the 24 and 35 summiluxes from your line up.

My line-up would be:

18 super elmar

28 or 35 cron - your choice

50 cron is absolutely fine but if you must have a summilux this is the one everybody raves about.

90 elmarit (secondhand) or summarit.

You could also consider the 28 elmarit, low cost but wicked sharp in my view.

 

Jeff

 

PS I started with a couple of lenses on the M8, 28 elmarit and 50 cron. That's grown considerably due to 'Gear Acquisition Syndrome' .

[doug_m]

My thoughts:

 

1st choice) 50 lux ASPH- I get tired about raving about this lens.

 

2nd choice) 75 cron is very fine -but may be too close to 50. Note it focuses down to 0.7 m which the 90 cron does not and as such has a better reproduction ratio than the 90.

 

3) Wait on the wide angle. I think the 24 lux is superb but have not used it much on the M9 and it may be too wide for many of us. You do not really need a finder with the 24 mm though as you can figure things out pretty easily by some initial trial and error.

 

4) The 28 cron and 35 cron are nice but seem a bit sterile so to speak when it comes to having the type of leica "glow" that the lenses above (50 lux ASPH, 75 cron , 24 lux ASPH) have. I've never had the 35 lux but you might want to stay away for now and hope a new one comes along soon.

 

5) The 90 cron is nice but its pretty big compared to the 75 cron.

 

Getting a 35 cron and 75 cron as a two lens kit would be a good 2 lens kit to start but its hard to avoid the 50 lux ASPH as its a must have lens. Also you should have at least one very fast (1.4) lens.

 

Good luck

[JLV]

Jag,

 

I think that 3 lenses with a M9 are the "ready for every situation "solution.

I am a Leica loyal user, so;

 

My choice goes to 18 /3.8 landscape and architecture, 35 cron asph sharp as a razor , medium small and no focus shift for street and indoor and 75 cron apo asph for portrait .An unbelievable lens as good IMHO as the 50 lux asph but more convenient in FF for fashion and portrait.

 

Here are my 2 cents.

 

Enjoy:D

 

Jean-Luc

[smb]

It is not required that you buy all the lenses at once. A nice light kit is a 35mm summicron + 75mm summarit. I find that when I went below 2.0 focusing was difficult. Also, the 75mm summarit has gotten rave reviews. Take your time when choosing lenses. Consider what you have photographed in the past because that will be what you will photograph in the future. Add one lens at a time. Work with each new lens and build up an understanding of its uses and limitations. Good Luck.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tpkoester]

Lars,

 

I thought a few times about a 90mm lens, but haven't missed it yet. I have an old and worn out Elmarit 90 from my fathers collection. The quality of this 'old' lens is not comparable to the 35mm I use with my M3. I've tried it on my M9 and had no fun with it caused by the lack of quality.

 

I believe the trip to Florida may guide me to new lens requirements, if any at all :-) I'll leave the Nikon stuff at home and carry only a supplemental Olympus µ TOUGH-8000 for beach and boating activities. Looking forward to some great photo action.

 

ciao tpk