herbet Posted October 3, 2009 Share #61 Posted October 3, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Herbert, The pictures from the M9 were remarkably and consistently better in their clarity, sharpness, vibrancy, dynamic range, aliveness and color. They have what I have come to call the X factor. those might have been the X files you've got there then sorry, but I could not resist the joke. anyway, chill out mate. cameras are only tools and internet reviews are always to be taken with a grain (or two) of salt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Hi herbet, Take a look here A controversial thread? M9 blows the M8 out of the water.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BerndReini Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share #62 Posted October 3, 2009 "The M7 Blows the M9 Out of the Water". This, my friends, will indeed be an interesting comparison, which I know will be incredibly controversial. I am waiting to get my M9 before I compare these two beast side by side. I have done the same comparison between the M8 and the M7 and discussed the results in another thread. In short, the M8 showed more detail and less noise, but had less dynamic range and the transition into clipped highlights wasn't as nice. It was horses for courses for me. Recently, I've been shooting Ektar 100 in harsh sunlight and the M8 at ISO320-640 when there was no direct sunlight left. Now, I am waiting to see whether I will sell my M7 or my M8 or possibly hold on to both of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted October 3, 2009 Share #63 Posted October 3, 2009 I am a 6x7 user considering starting a thread "MF blows FX, DX and 35mm out of the water." Also humor...gotta go take pics with my now- worthless M8... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted October 3, 2009 Share #64 Posted October 3, 2009 I am a 6x7 user considering starting a thread "MF blows FX, DX and 35mm out of the water." Also humor...gotta go take pics with my now- worthless M8... Have you not seen the LL-tests to the contrary? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted October 3, 2009 Share #65 Posted October 3, 2009 Have you not seen the LL-tests to the contrary? No, I only read Ken Rockwell's site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 3, 2009 Share #66 Posted October 3, 2009 I'm illiterate, so I can't read any site. I have to trust how the camera performs for me! I translate this site by counting smileys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay101 Posted October 4, 2009 Share #67 Posted October 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Personally, I could care less about camera vs. camera - it's images that 'blow me out of the water'. Spot on. As Chase Jarvis says, "The best camera is the one that's with you." (I think a less polite but funnier version of the same message said, "Owning a Leica M8 or M9 never stopped anyone from getting laid, but talking about it too much sure did" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 4, 2009 Share #68 Posted October 4, 2009 Spot on. As Chase Jarvis says, "The best camera is the one that's with you." (I think a less polite but funnier version of the same message said, "Owning a Leica M8 or M9 never stopped anyone from getting laid, but talking about it too much sure did" That's why I ain't saying what I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieberdavid Posted October 4, 2009 Share #69 Posted October 4, 2009 Hi Bernd and Everyone, If you actually do follow through with a comparison of the M7 and M9, please do not give us your results after the M7 photos are passed through a scanner. If you do, then your comparison is not between the M7 and M9 but between the M9 and your scanner. I want to see a comparison between the M7 and M9, which means to me a comparison of projected slides. Cheers! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #70 Posted October 4, 2009 Sorry to disappoint you, but I do these tests for myself, not for others, but I am glad to share results, as btw. I have done in another film vs. digital thread about my M7. I exhibit prints of my photographs, so the print is what is relevant to me. I shoot in contrasty situations and believe in maximum detail in the shadows and highlights. Crushing the shadows is not my style, therefore I shoot negative film, Ektar 100 to be specific. My exhibition selects are drum-scanned by a very good lab in LA as a 300mb file, which experts at my lab tell me pulls out any usable detail you can get from a 35mm negative. This is my application and when I get results, I will be happy to share them. I love slides too, but I don't shoot slide film for what I do anymore. The Pradovit hasn't come out in four years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 4, 2009 Share #71 Posted October 4, 2009 Hi Bernd and Everyone, If you actually do follow through with a comparison of the M7 and M9, please do not give us your results after the M7 photos are passed through a scanner. If you do, then your comparison is not between the M7 and M9 but between the M9 and your scanner. I want to see a comparison between the M7 and M9, which means to me a comparison of projected slides. Cheers! David Hi David, unless I am missing something, the only way an M7 and M9 can be compared is as a tool for producing a hard copy print. The subsequent prints are all that can fairly be compared.There is nothing else they really have in common. I have and use both. Both are excellent for their respective media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted October 4, 2009 Share #72 Posted October 4, 2009 Any camera system should be tested for whatever the final output will be. So if projection is your goal, then by all means test with that in mind. Just be aware that you're not testing cameras so much as processes. You'll be comparing a camera + film + analog projector vs. camera + digital projector OR camera + film output machine + film + analog projector. For me prints are the final output. But it's made more complicated that for publication I really need to be able to transmit digital files. So it's fair to compare MP + film + scanner vs M9. I also do exhibition prints, so for that purpose I'd compare MP + film + enlarger + paper vs M9 + printer + paper. It's important to understand that I'm not comparing to find out which is the 'best' camera, but which is the best process for my needs. Suffice it to say that for my needs the M9 does blow the M8 out of the water, though the M8 is still an amazing camera. I need 50MB files for my agency and the M9 delivers without interpolation. The quality for medium to large prints (from an Epson 4880) is definitely improved. Also the full-frame format means my lenses perform as expected, which is worth a lot to me. I can carry the small 35/1.4ASPH or 28/2 instead of the huge and expensive 24/1.4 and that's a big advantage. I don't want to steer this thread in the wrong direction, but the M9 also blows film out of the water for my needs. However if you would ask me what the best camera in current production is, I'd say the MP, no question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 4, 2009 Share #73 Posted October 4, 2009 Suffice it to say that for my needs the M9 does blow the M8 out of the water, though the M8 is still an amazing camera. I need 50MB files for my agency and the M9 delivers without interpolation. The quality for medium to large prints (from an Epson 4880) is definitely improved. Also the full-frame format means my lenses perform as expected, which is worth a lot to me. I can carry the small 35/1.4ASPH or 28/2 instead of the huge and expensive 24/1.4 and that's a big advantage. I don't want to steer this thread in the wrong direction, but the M9 also blows film out of the water for my needs. However if you would ask me what the best camera in current production is, I'd say the MP, no question. Noah - have to agree. If I didn't need the print size and WANT the 28 performing as a 28 I'd stick with M8 - which has been brilliant tool, especially with the improved shutter and framelines. In fact, for me the M8u is a BETTER camera than the M8.2. However - I've felt cramped with the wide angle offering from the M8 ever since I bought it (same story working with the 1D mk2 - so good when I could shift to the 5 Series Canon's...), so I'm going across to a 2 M9 system and rationalising my lenses. Expensive process but worth it for the kind of work I do... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #74 Posted October 4, 2009 I have an MP and an M7. The MP was my first Leica and has sentimental value. It is black paint, nicely brassed and I love that quiet shutter. 6 months ago, I bought an M7 with a .58 finder and motor drive, and it is in many ways a better tool for what I do than the MP. First I thought about selling the MP, but then decided to hang on to it. I thought about selling the M7, then I thought the M8 has to go. But you know what: never sell a Leica unless you have to. I'm keeping them all at least for now. It isn't easy to find exactly what you want used, so why sell. I will however get rid of a Hasselblad Xpan with Center Filter and Spirit Level if anyone is interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 4, 2009 Share #75 Posted October 4, 2009 I am a 6x7 user considering starting a thread "MF blows FX, DX and 35mm out of the water." Also humor...gotta go take pics with my now- worthless M8... Have fun ;-) !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 4, 2009 Share #76 Posted October 4, 2009 I have an MP and an M7. The MP was my first Leica and has sentimental value. It is black paint, nicely brassed and I love that quiet shutter. 6 months ago, I bought an M7 with a .58 finder and motor drive, and it is in many ways a better tool for what I do than the MP. First I thought about selling the MP, but then decided to hang on to it. I thought about selling the M7, then I thought the M8 has to go. But you know what: never sell a Leica unless you have to. I'm keeping them all at least for now. It isn't easy to find exactly what you want used, so why sell. I will however get rid of a Hasselblad Xpan with Center Filter and Spirit Level if anyone is interested. I hear you. I have a minty M2. I don't have time to delve into film anymore, I can hardly make time to shoot digital (I'm not a pro just a serious potographer) but I hold on to it. I like the legacy it represents - not so the brand name as much as the MAGNUM, HCB thing. My M8 remains in my camera bag, not selling it, not dumping it, it remains as valuable to me and my photography as ever. IMHO Leica pricing is out of control and I also refuse to give in to this. Paying inflated prices just because of the pretty Red Dot (which is missing on my M2) would make me feel stupid (granted if I had the big bucks I might feel different about this but I don't, I might also feel different about this if I were a pro who would at the end of the day come out ahead financially with my investment in the M9 ). On a similar note I sometimes wonder if owning the latest Leica M has become a class thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #77 Posted October 4, 2009 Wilfredo, here's my take on it. I could care less about the prestige of it, which is why I always avoid the collector's sets. I am a cinematographer, but I exhibit my still photography. It is my creative outlet. At the end of the day, as long as I can afford it, I like taking photographs with the camera I enjoy the most, is the best tool for the job, I have with me whenever possible, and gives me the best quality for that one great shot that is a keeper. This will be the M9. Now, HCB shot the train station (guy jumping across the puddle) with what was the best tool for him at that time, and it is a great photograph that deserves this. I also believe in horses for courses: I shoot tight B&W portraits with a Contax 645 and Zeiss 120mm Makro Planar because the precise framing, close-up capabilities, and bright viewfinder are important for this kind of thing. I rarely shoot landscapes, but when I do, I try to use my 4x5. To shoot my family and friends, I mostly use a DLux4, and sometimes I travel with my MP and a few rolls of different kind of film just to have fun and be selective during vacation. I guess the next thing I'll venture into is some IR photography with my M8, because from what I hear, it "blows the M9 out of the water" in this regard. Don't get me wrong, I would not go into debt to buy an M9, but to me it is a very justifiable expense that I am willing to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
everyman Posted October 5, 2009 Share #78 Posted October 5, 2009 Here is a link to a German forum. It is loaded with a ton of M9 pictures. They illustrate what Bernd and I have been trying to say about the M9 IQ etc. I thought it would be fun for everybody to see. Leica M9 - Beispielbilder - DSLR-Forum You have to register to see the pictures. I can't speak a word of German, but I managed to do it. Once you register and activate then you will see all these amazing M9 pictures. I hope everybody enjoys it. The photographer's name is Rocco. And he apparently is a wedding photographer. Check out these stunning images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share #79 Posted October 5, 2009 Rich is right, those pictures look much better and illustrate what I've been trying to show. The difference is that they are thumbnails that you can click on and be lead to a much larger file than I was able to post in this thread. It really makes a difference. This guy had no rangefinder experience and shot a wedding with the M9 the first weekend he got it. He used it together with a D3 and a D700, and he raves about the M9 experience. Please check out these pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbet Posted October 6, 2009 Share #80 Posted October 6, 2009 those are some nice images. I'd love to see them at 100%. the DNG files although not so interesting photographically, show a lot of detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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