atlfoto Posted September 28, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I am one of those “changing to film again” (I begun shooting and developing Black and White in the 80’s) and a question has risen to me reading things about negative scanning. In the eighties, I developed all my film with tap water and positive it without problems. Now, I have heard that due to the resolution of the scanners, you should use distilled water to avoid salt crystals to be shown on your scanned file. I don’t have any problem using distilled water, but what happens before the fixer acts, you have to ample wash the negative and I supposed you should use tap water for this. I would like to know your experiences with tap or distilled water in the black and white development process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Hi atlfoto, Take a look here Tap vs distilled water. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted September 28, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 28, 2009 I personally use a lot of water when I develope film. Rinsing out all the containers I use and rinsing out the film. So distilled water would not be good for me and I haven't had any problems using tap water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Villain Posted September 28, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 28, 2009 I'm not an expert on scanning, but have always used distilled water for the final photo-flo rinse before putting film in the dryer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 28, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 28, 2009 I'm not an expert on scanning, but have always used distilled water for the final photo-flo rinse before putting film in the dryer Same here - though I didn't use a dryer. I'd also use deionised/distilled water when making up the stock solution for a developer supplied as a powder - Xtol in my case. Other than that I used tap water. The important one is the final rinse IMHO as dissolved minerals in the water can lead to drying marks on the dried film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 28, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 28, 2009 Same as for Steve, except when processing E6, for which Purified Water must be used. That's what I use for the final rinse for my B&W stuff too, when I don't have any distilled water. For E6, there are lots of washing stages between the various business stages, so I use tap water for that. Ours is very soft, so the amount of lime in the water is small. Purified Water is more expensive than distilled water, so that is bought by the 5 litre cannister from the pharmacists. Distilled water for B&W comes from Halfords. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted September 28, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 28, 2009 We have one of those carbon filters on our drinking water so I tend to fill a bottle from that otherwise I use tap water for washing and haven't come across any problems. I guess it also depends where you live and what your tap water is like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted September 28, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) all depends on your tap water. mine is more like bog water with gravel thrown in (for free), so I used bottled for everything (cannot get distilled water in kabul) as it is at least clean. I had probs with drying marks but thats been solved by using a finger squeegee followed by kitchen towel on the back of the film to mop up excess before drying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPJMP Posted September 28, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 28, 2009 After some trial and error, I also found that using distilled water only during the final rinse made any difference. For everything else, I use tap water. However, for me even with Photo-Flo during the final rinse I am still getting occassional residue streaks from drying. I will have to try the "finger squeegee" method next time to hopefully eliminate this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatter Posted September 28, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 28, 2009 I think there are 2 keys here.. 1: consistency and 2: what your water is actually like. Unless local tap water is particularly off high or low on the ph scale.. (i.e. overly hard or soft) I've never found a need to mix developers with distilled water. Even if the ph of the water is high or low.. altering the development time should compensate for this.. as long as the water is consistent. If it's not consistent.. you're screwed.. you have no choice but to mix and or dilute with distilled water. Other than that, I would recommend mixing Photoflo with distilled water if you can. Next... a good filter on the water lines is essential for filtering out the smallest grit, etc that can scratch film. One other suggestion.. I never squeege wet film with anything. rather.. when I pull it out of the photo flo, I give the film.... still loaded on the reels....several good strong shakes to shake off excess photoflo solution; then hang it to dry in a dust-free place with no air circulation.. weighted with a clothes-pin. If you must use a heat source, use a 100W light bulb in the bottom of your drying cabinet. Never use any kind of circulating air to dry film Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakepottery Posted September 28, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 28, 2009 Many years ago when I was developing loads of film I had a permanent darkroom setup with a massive water filter attached to the incoming mains. I used the filtered water to make he stock chemicals and washing. Nowadays I only develop a few films (getting more regularly though!) and use ordinary water. Unfortunaely Ihave noticed dryinh marks from the chemical residue in the water depsite finger squegeeing. I've been thinking about getting another decent filter and see if that helps. Seems to be much more noticeable due to he high res scanner I use which picks up everything! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted September 29, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 29, 2009 ...Unfortunaely Ihave noticed dryinh marks from the chemical residue in the water depsite finger squegeeing. I've been thinking about getting another decent filter and see if that helps. Seems to be much more noticeable due to he high res scanner I use which picks up everything! After the gentle finger squeegee (or without) hang the film up and use some lint free kitchen towel folded over on the back of the film. Since doing so my terrible problems with drying marks have vanished entirely. I get perfectly clean film, no fluff, scratches etc. I started this recently and have done about 10 films with no trouble at all. The kitchen roll was teh real winner for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 29, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 29, 2009 This is a useful thread. I am still working my way through my first roll of Tri-X so this advice is timely. The water where I live is so hard it beats up little old ladies, so I think a trip to Halfords is called for... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPJMP Posted September 29, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 29, 2009 After the gentle finger squeegee (or without) hang the film up and use some lint free kitchen towel folded over on the back of the film. Since doing so my terrible problems with drying marks have vanished entirely. I get perfectly clean film, no fluff, scratches etc. I started this recently and have done about 10 films with no trouble at all. The kitchen roll was teh real winner for me. Batmobile, I'm going to try this next time I develop. Thanks for the tip. Problems with spots and residue marks from drying is the reason why I have not developed any B&W in at least 6 months (been shooting mostly XP2+). I think scanners pick up a lot of stuff that would otherwise not show up with traditional enlarging/printmaking. I've got a fresh set of chemicals and a few rolls of Tri-X on hand, so I'll give this technique a try soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 29, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 29, 2009 To echo some others, after 25 years and 4 darkrooms across US, with all different types of water, I used distilled water and photo flo only at final stage...tap water for rest. No drying cabinet, but careful to have dust free environment. Oldest negs are still pristine. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 29, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 29, 2009 I also squeegee the wet film with my fingers but in the OLD days back when all there was was film and mostly what I used was B&W Tri-X I used a tool for that. This tool is still available from good photo stores and online from places like B&H. squeegee There are many to choose from both rubber and sponge. I develope so little film these days that I never got around to getting one of these and my fingers do the job OK. Never thought to use some type of towel and I probably won't as that, in my mind, could add lint to the negatives even if the towel is promoted as Lint Free. The less I touch the negatives the better, at least that is the way I see it. I hang my negatives in my bathroom off the shower rod. Dust free? Air circulating, yes you bet when the heat or AC is running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 29, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 29, 2009 I also squeegee the wet film with my fingers but in the OLD days back when all there was was film and mostly what I used was B&W Tri-X I used a tool for that. This tool is still available from good photo stores and online from places like B&H.squeegee. I've used these before, but best to pre-soak, or even store them, in photo flo solution to keep flexible and to remove any particles. I never used fingers due to skin oils that can transfer to film. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 29, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 29, 2009 I can only say I used tap with Rodinal, Microdil, and D76 for 40 years without a problem. Then I broke the golden rule and tried distilled. I got grain a big as glof balls. A friend in a neighboring suburb of chicago who did beautiful T Max 400 prints with Leica APO glass had the same experience. We both went back to tap and the problem went away. So test before you ruin something valuable. I never got salts on black& white scanned negs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aurora_borealis Posted October 4, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 4, 2009 I have not used distilled water in the darkroom. I use tap water without any problems. But I live in Greenland so maybe I am just lucky. The negatives are bright with no "spots". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted October 4, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 4, 2009 Never used anything else than good old Tap water.....so on one hand I might be missing something but on the other hand my tap water might just be fine..... don't worry about the rinse andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted October 4, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 4, 2009 I can only say I used tap with Rodinal, Microdil, and D76 for 40 years without a problem.Then I broke the golden rule and tried distilled. I got grain a big as glof balls. .... Was there a large temperature difference between process steps when trying distilled? This can cause very strong grain. Another vote for last rinse distilled here. One of the reason is the aforementioned temperature control - the canister with distilled water is stored at the same temperature as the developer, when the tap water is colder... Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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