barjohn Posted September 30, 2009 Share #41 Posted September 30, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can't say that I disagree with anything you are saying but it really depends on what you will do with the P&S images. If you only plan to do 4x6, 5x7 or 8x10 you are paying money for something that really is over kill and a Canon S90 or G11 or Panasonic LX3 or Ricoh GRD III may serve you just as well for that application for less money. Usually, one wants a large sensor because one is going to print large or to get better high ISO performance (but this camera's fixed lens will provide the upper limit in combination with the sensor and that will be lower than it might have been if it would have accepted faster legacy MF lenses. At the smaller print sizes you may be hard pressed to see any better IQ though some people can fool themselves to justify what they spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Hi barjohn, Take a look here Why Are There So Many Negative Thoughts About the X1?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Elliott J Posted September 30, 2009 Share #42 Posted September 30, 2009 Well, I feel the larger sensor is worth it because I don't want the entire universe to be in focus. It's nice to isolate the subject in a soft field if you choose to. Lets just wait and see how the rest of the camera works. Good value is not overcharging for quality. Give me the quality and I am happy to pay. Not interested in finding something cheaper that can do the job. Any camera can produce an image that can work. I want something that is a transparent conduit between the subject and my eye. If it works, then it's worth it. Lots of camera will do, sensor size is not about how big you are making the print!!!!! It's about what kind of effect it will have on your subject. Who cares if its a 4X6 or 11X14, the image is what the image is and the relationships between the elements in the image are the same if its a small print or a large print. Not interested in more megapixels - interested in bigger sensors with better megapixels... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrique Santa Posted October 1, 2009 Share #43 Posted October 1, 2009 Why not negative thoughts?. It´s imposible an universal cam-looking-good-for-everybody. As an amateur I can´t justify 2.000$ in a P&S single lens cam, even it´s Leica or German made. Put an EVF and a zoom on it and I´ll go for it and sell the rest of my equipment. That´s all. At this moment X1 is not for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor1 Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share #44 Posted October 1, 2009 Hi BarJohn, We took a DL4 and Canon G-10 on a trip a few weeks ago and were very highly disappointed with the quality from the Canon compared to the DL4. Both were set on automatic for real P&S ease. I didn't realize there would be such a noticeable difference between the two. Enrique, I can understand being frustrated with the cost. There are many people with that same feeling about the M line as well. We have to wait to see if the cost is justified by the quality. I anxiously await to see the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalina Posted October 4, 2009 Share #45 Posted October 4, 2009 and I respect Terry Richardson as an icon. He has a great eye, but... his photos all look either blown out with flash or muddy/dim (not contrasty enough). Look at his cover shot of Lindsay Lohan on GQ. Skin does not look like that even on the fairest Caucasian person! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted October 4, 2009 Share #46 Posted October 4, 2009 I respect Terry Richardson as an icon. He has a great eye, but... his photos all look either blown out with flash or muddy/dim (not contrasty enough). Look at his cover shot of Lindsay Lohan on GQ. Skin does not look like that even on the fairest Caucasian person! Kalina , not sure that he was after faithful color/tone reproduction when he made those images....... am sure his criteria were different, high impact, sellable images often don't have too much to do with what the scene actually looked like in my opinion. I actually like his stuff regards andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dalethorn Posted October 4, 2009 Share #47 Posted October 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can't imagine selling someone an X1 unless they're already a Leica fan or they definitely know that's what they want. Apparently the only competitive advantage at this point is having the largest sensor of its type in a camera that size. Which is an astounding thing for Leica - to have a product at the top of the competition, if only for a moment in time. $2000 u.s. is way outside of reason and logic for a fixed-lens compact camera for nearly everyone. Not for me, but I'm a long-time Leica owner. It will be really interesting to see what Leica does to keep selling the X1 after the initial units go out the door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTheRipper Posted October 5, 2009 Share #48 Posted October 5, 2009 I think it may be worth it... considering it's: 1) made in Germany 2) lens seems to be really great 3) has an expensive sensor... but I'm a total noob! 2k is a pretty little hefty tag! I hope to start seeing some reviews this month! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocrat Posted October 5, 2009 Share #49 Posted October 5, 2009 Well, for what it's worth, I'm wildly excited about the X1 (hence my registering and coming here to lurk and now post). I know that I'm not alone. The price tag is the only - THE ONLY - thing which casts a bit of shade over the sunny prospect of one of these sitting under my Christmas Tree. Several people I know were all ready to put money down for an X1, expecting it to cost anything up to €1000, only to turn away when the price was announced. Personally, I still plan to get one. I think the price is very high indeed but I'm assuming that it's high for a reason and not just to rip me off for wanting a camera with a red dot on it. I'm also assuming that this camera, despite being digital, will hold its value for a while. Not to repeat the obvious, but this appears to be a genuinely compact camera capable of delivering results which equal, perhaps even surpass, the output of a prosumer DSLR in quality. (I can't wait for the first reviews.) The only downside is not being able to change lenses. But I learned my photography on a Minolta X-300 and a 50mm prime, I'd been shooting for nearly twenty years before I got my first zoom lens. I take better pictures when I can't zoom (except with my feet). The thought of having just the one, very good prime lens actually attracts me. So why not a GF1 or PEN or Sigma DP-2? I'm expecting the X1 to offer a better experience than any of those, and/or to be slightly more compact. I'm selling my Nikon system to finance it. Too often I've missed a great photography opportunity because I went out without my camera, because my camera was too bulky. I'm really excited about the X1 and expect it to reignite my enthusiasm for taking pictures. Sorry for the long first post, just wanted to give my €0.02. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor1 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share #50 Posted October 5, 2009 Welcome to the forum Ottocrat, Let's hope the anticipated reviews meet your expectations and mine. You and I share the same reasons for wanting this camera. My very first camera was the Minolta XD-11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 5, 2009 Share #51 Posted October 5, 2009 Biggest complaint is fixed focal length. Sure it will be fine for some but for a $2000 camera with no chance to change focal length it is a no starter for me. Forget about sensor size, who cares as long as the IQ is good. Interchangeable lenses would be great, including wide to moderate wide (24-28) and moderate wide (28-35) to longer (65-75mm) FL zoom (even if the zoom was manual). But to spend $2000 on this camera no matter how good the IQ is isn't for me. As seen in the link posted by Imants it's really not the camera but the photographer that makes the image. Even his chosen camera has a zoom lens, Zeiss, with a FL of 28-70. Now if Leica came up with something like that, bigger sensor then DL-4 zoom lens (wide enough 28mm to short telephoto 70+/-mm) and Leica IQ it would be a big seller. But I don't see the X1 as that camera and the sales will prove this out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocrat Posted October 5, 2009 Share #52 Posted October 5, 2009 I guess at the end of the day we consumers expect the impossible and are disappointed when it doesn't materialise. Every camera ever designed is compromised in some way, the designer's job is to decide where to make those compromises. Plenty of cameras are out there in which the compromises that have been made will suit those people looking for maximum flexibility in terms of focal lengths and available lenses. There are also plenty of cameras out there which compromise flexibility and control for the sake of decent IQ at a low price. The designers of the X1 have identified a gap, they've chosen to compromise on flexibility and 'features' without sacrificing IQ, build quality, camera size and handing over control to the photographer. Personally I'm delighted, it's exactly where I'd have asked them to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRO Posted October 5, 2009 Share #53 Posted October 5, 2009 As a previous Leica CM user, I am really looking forward to the X1. I am used to the fixed focal length and loved the challenge of being "restricted" this way. I am also used to the price tag as I recall my CM being about $1000. I've been waiting for this camera for a while and have pre-ordered one already . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalina Posted October 5, 2009 Share #54 Posted October 5, 2009 2k is a pretty little hefty tag! I agree. I think if Leica priced this at $1500, it would definitely spark a lot more interest since you can get a Nikon D300 with the same sensor and a lot more flexibility for not much more than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 5, 2009 Share #55 Posted October 5, 2009 The designers of the X1 have identified a gap, they've chosen to compromise on flexibility and 'features' without sacrificing IQ, build quality, camera size and handing over control to the photographer. Personally I'm delighted, it's exactly where I'd have asked them to go. Hold on there. What IQ? Has any one seen images made from the production model/version of this camera ? If not then you really can't state that is has great or even good IQ. Build quality, see above but change IQ to BQ. These are thing that are not yet know for sure. So you will be buying one sight unseen, just on the feature set. This camera would be something I'd be very interest in if it had either a zoom lens or had a interchangeable lens. As it is the 35mm lens is my least used lens on both cropped and FF cameras. So why would I want a camera where that is the only lens. It really has nothing to do as consumer. It does have everything to do with how much would I use this $2000 camera instead of the M8, which I own, or M9, if I ever buy a M9. With either of those I can have the equivalent of a 35mm lens and have the option to use a variety of other FL lenses from 3 different manufacturures. Right now you can buy a M8 for just over what this X1 costs with even a larger sensor, if that is so important. I really find it a waist of effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor1 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share #56 Posted October 5, 2009 My local shop doesn't have the M8 for the same price and expects them to be gone as soon as the M9 hits the store. The M8's here are $4000. I've only check with the one shop, maybe others have better prices for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted October 5, 2009 Share #57 Posted October 5, 2009 and the sales will prove this out. You already know that? Too bad Leica didn't consult with you before they designed the X1... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 5, 2009 Share #58 Posted October 5, 2009 My local shop doesn't have the M8 for the same price and expects them to be gone as soon as the M9 hits the store. The M8's here are $4000. I've only check with the one shop, maybe others have better prices for them. I was talking about the used market, at the present time. In the near future the used M8's will drop in price and if there are any new M8's they will also come down in price as will the M8.2's, what's left of both models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 5, 2009 Share #59 Posted October 5, 2009 You already know that? Too bad Leica didn't consult with you before they designed the X1... Very funny to take what I said and turn it around. We'll just have to wait and see. Maybe Leica isn't expecting this model to sell widely and that is the reason for the cost. All prices are determined by cost + profit / projected sales. If a company thinks they are only going to sell X number of units, low number, then the price for that item goes up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasco Posted October 5, 2009 Share #60 Posted October 5, 2009 why do people keep coming on to the x1 forum if they think this camera is not what they want. once they have stated that the camera is not for them, that should be enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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