Why Are There So Many Negative Thoughts About the X1?

[ljclark]

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Why?

 

1. People tend to be negative about what they don't understand. (I'll use World History as my citation for that conclusion.)

 

2. People get their feelings hurt when a camera isn't exactly what they want. (My answer to that is for you to get the funds, hire the team, and make the camera of your dreams. In fact, if you have enough bucks, I bet Cosina would build 10,000 of whatever you want. Put up or...)

 

3. People need to vent. (Present company included.)

 

I've said it before in other threads: If you don't "get" the X1, is isn't being marketed to you in the first place. All this "shoulda, coulda" is just vaporous emission.

 

I'm not sure I'll ever buy an X1, but I think I understand it. It certainly intrigues me, and I'd love to take one for a spin some weekend.

 

And it is only the X1. (Get it?)

[Mauribix]

I had the opportunity to use an X1 for some shots at my dealer's shop.

Dunno exactly what kind of rant is this thread referred too, but these are my conclusions:

 

-Optical quality is great (what's that!? Isn't it a Leica after all??)

-Sensor size is great (being a P&S)

-Controls are great (being a P&S, it's as essential as an M)

-Design... ehmmm... IMHO it's faulty, that the biggest concern.

let me say, it's compact ok, but if you use the necessary (IMHO) VF, you'll have to give up the idea to keep the camera in your pocket, unless you wear a kangaroo style bumbag, so where's the great practicality against an M8 or M9?

Then again, it feels like a real plastic toy in my hand... what was wrong with a DLUX-4 style metal body?

Then comes the lens design... main concerns about the dlux-4 were about the protruding lens design... it's still there in the X1, but with a 1600euros camera...! Ok, with the VF it's a 1900euros camera:eek:

 

-Last, but that's just my personal and useless rant, why did they decide to offer such a camera (it's not sarcastic)? Was really the DP-1 DP-2 segment that big to involve Leica's R&D to such an effort?

In this case I may know why a compact interchangeable lens RF camera (maybe with a APS-C sensor) would have come in hand, and it's still on many's whishlist.

I'm not a Leica engineer nor a CEO (and I don't pretend to be that), I just wonder how could a small camera, with the ability to use M lenses, without a VF and with an APS-C sensor would have cost... So much more than the X1?

 

As in the case of the S2, Leica is evidently tryin' to find a niche in the market where competitors are weak, but was that necessary with a P&S? Who knows.

Sometimes I just wonder if it's really necessary to invent new forms at all costs... and then again, which costs?

[johnastovall]

 

<snipped>

Then again, it feels like a real plastic toy in my hand... what was wrong with a DLUX-4 style metal body?

 

<snipped>

 

Why does it feel like a 'plastic toy' given it has an all metal body?

[Mauribix]

Why does it feel like a 'plastic toy' given it has an all metal body?

 

Actually it's my feeling...

The body is made of metal, I'm not shure about the "shell" and the lens mount, great use of plastic parts was done anyway.

The rear jog wheel is not as precise as the M8's one, while the diaphram and speed wheels too seemed not "top class" elements.

 

Did you have a different feeling? I'm interested in other's impressions.

[khanosu]

Thanks Maurizio, for sharing your impressions. I wonder if the toy like feeling is because of the light weight of the camera and not because of a lack of quality (strong) materials used for the case and lens mounts etc.

 

How is the camera from a quietness point of view? How loud is the shutter sound? Does it make a metallic sound or is it completely quiet? How noisy are the sounds of the other mechanical movements? like the movement of focusing elements, iris etc.?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Furrukh

[johnastovall]

Actually it's my feeling...

The body is made of metal, I'm not shure about the "shell" and the lens mount, great use of plastic parts was done anyway.

The rear jog wheel is not as precise as the M8's one, while the diaphram and speed wheels too seemed not "top class" elements.

 

Did you have a different feeling? I'm interested in other's impressions.

 

I'm waiting for one to show up in Austin, Texas along with an M9 so I can get the feel of both.

 

I'm very interested in the X1 as large sensor alternative to the GR-DIII.

[Mauribix]

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Thanks Maurizio, for sharing your impressions. I wonder if the toy like feeling is because of the light weight of the camera and not because of a lack of quality (strong) materials used for the case and lens mounts etc.

 

How is the camera from a quietness point of view? How loud is the shutter sound? Does it make a metallic sound or is it completely quiet? How noisy are the sounds of the other mechanical movements? like the movement of focusing elements, iris etc.?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Furrukh

 

Furrukh, the quietness of the shutter is really a great characteristic of the camera. I can't recall of any mechanical movement, nor the "traditional" metallic sound.

No noise from the focusing elements indeed.

Probably the light weight of the camera is fundamental to my impressions, anyway, as to say, the feeling (in hand) is not that different from that of the dlux-4 as to say.

I remember, at first glimpse, a better impression when I bought my DP1.

 

ciao!

[Mauribix]

I'm sure you won't be disappointed, IQ is excellent, anyway comparing the M9 to the X1 will point you out (I guess) what i felt.

[felipe-m]

Why is there a need to be so negative about this camera?

 

Not sure I follow you here. Apart from a few exceptions, I don't think there is much negativity about it in this forum. Quite the contrary actually, plus the usual numerous wishes for different specs from people that would have liked something different. Nothing negative or wrong about that either...

[khanosu]

Furrukh, the quietness of the shutter is really a great characteristic of the camera. I can't recall of any mechanical movement, nor the "traditional" metallic sound.

No noise from the focusing elements indeed.

Probably the light weight of the camera is fundamental to my impressions, anyway, as to say, the feeling (in hand) is not that different from that of the dlux-4 as to say.

I remember, at first glimpse, a better impression when I bought my DP1.

 

ciao!

 

Thanks for your response, Maurizio! My plan is to get the X1 to compliment my M8 and use it in those situations where quietness is of importance. What you say is very encouraging.

 

Take care!

 

Furrukh

[Tenor1]

Hi Felipe, what I feel is people want to make it into a different camera for various reasons. It comes across to me as being negative towards the camera as it is proposed. If people really liked the camera then they would not want to make so many changes.

[ljclark]

Actually it's my feeling...

The body is made of metal, I'm not shure about the "shell" and the lens mount, great use of plastic parts was done anyway.

 

Did you have a different feeling? I'm interested in other's impressions.

 

Here is an experiment about plastic "feel".

 

Equipment.

 

-- 1 plastic bodied camera

-- 1 pair of foam plastic earplugs

-- 1 pair of sound isolation ear "muffs" (it's better with both)

 

1. In a quiet room feel the plastic camera as a reference point. (I know -- it is a bit odd.)

 

2. Plug your ears and put on the muffs.

 

3. Feel the plastic camera again. Is there a difference?

 

Sometimes "feel" has a strong sound component.

[felipe-m]

Hi Felipe, what I feel is people want to make it into a different camera for various reasons. It comes across to me as being negative towards the camera as it is proposed. If people really liked the camera then they would not want to make so many changes.

 

Well, yes, if people want something changed, it's the most natural thing on earth to wish for it. Those happy with the X1 as it is will buy it, those wishing for changes, will hope and ask for them. Still don't see the negative side of any of this...

[cheewai_m6]

cause you can't please everyone and some people like to complain and talk something down. some are so set in their point of view, they can't see from other perspectives.

 

personally, in my opinion, leica can do no wrong. i'd gladly own one of each model leica produces.

[Tenor1]

I agree with Cheewai. The complaining that the camera should have this or that seems negative to me. It reminds me of a saying "If a child lives with criticism, he/she learns to condemn." I am NOT implying the people here are children, that's how the saying goes.

[meatboy]

Why?

 

1. People tend to be negative about what they don't understand. (I'll use World History as my citation for that conclusion.)

 

2. People get their feelings hurt when a camera isn't exactly what they want. (My answer to that is for you to get the funds, hire the team, and make the camera of your dreams. In fact, if you have enough bucks, I bet Cosina would build 10,000 of whatever you want. Put up or...)

 

3. People need to vent. (Present company included.)

 

I've said it before in other threads: If you don't "get" the X1, is isn't being marketed to you in the first place. All this "shoulda, coulda" is just vaporous emission.

 

I'm not sure I'll ever buy an X1, but I think I understand it. It certainly intrigues me, and I'd love to take one for a spin some weekend.

 

And it is only the X1. (Get it?)

 

ljclark, again, I could not have said it better.

 

I also am not sure I'll get one - but I "get" it, and it has its niche just as it is. I wait to see some results, but am patient as to give Leica time to get it right and good!

[meatboy]

I'm very interested in the X1 as large sensor alternative to the GR-DIII.

 

Thank you John, a great idea, my thoughts too, OR as an addition and complement to the GRDIII.

[NZDavid]

I'm impressed! I particularly like the shutter speed and aperture controls. So clear and simple. Why hasn't any other camera-maker done that? I would have liked to have seen a manual ISO dial as well. An optical finder instead of a built-in flash would also be good, but a separate finder is probably clearer. An ultra wide-angle attachment would be really useful.

 

I am happy with my Ms but this is a nice design.

[Mauribix]

Here is an experiment about plastic "feel".

 

Equipment.

 

-- 1 plastic bodied camera

-- 1 pair of foam plastic earplugs

-- 1 pair of sound isolation ear "muffs" (it's better with both)

 

1. In a quiet room feel the plastic camera as a reference point. (I know -- it is a bit odd.)

 

2. Plug your ears and put on the muffs.

 

3. Feel the plastic camera again. Is there a difference?

 

Sometimes "feel" has a strong sound component.

 

Nice experiments... in that case the feeling was not due to sound, just to my hands having hold hundreds of cameras before I guess. Many P&S too.

Actually, I will keep in mind this experiment. Thank you!!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Elliott J]

Having owned a G1 and an E-P1 I can tell you that MF really requires a real viewfinder, either optical or electronic where one can see whether the image is in focus or not in addition to providing framing information. Had Leica provided such a viewfinder and allowed the use of MF lenses it would have had a runaway winner even at the very high price listed. Otherwise, a used M8 or better yet an RD-1 are much better buys. RD-1 prices have been as low as $1,200 and it is a very good camera up to about 1600 ISO with a nice large 1:1 viewfinder. Given that Leica have made OVF's for the CL (i.e. small) it should have been possible with the X1. This camera will have to be as fast as the Epson with better IQ to justify its price.

 

Well, lets see. The price of a camera isn't really the problem, it's if it suits your purposes that matters. Personally, I am looking forward to being able to try one and see if it suits my needs as a PS. I like a bigger sensor, because I don't always want the entire universe to be in focus. With face detect, I should be happy??? Can't focus my P45 to save my life and it's big and cumbersome. The M8 or RD-1 are a better buy if you want to deal. I just want a really good PS that can rival my past Konica Hexars. Contax T3, T2 and TVS II. Nikon Ti 35etc. Sometimes I don't want to have to deal with technical crap and just shoot. So far, I'm not so sure this camera is overpriced. When I have had the opportunity to test one, my opinion might change. A camera is a camera and it's worth what it can do for you. Much like clothing, sometimes a t shirt is 5 bucks, sometimes its 400. It's a garment, and is worth what you are willing to give up in order to get it.

 

ej