strange light reflexes in 35 mm summicron asph

[vla]

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good evening,

quite some time ago i noticed those well-known light reflexes when using my 35mm 'cron in low-light situations with one strong light spot. originially, i attributed this to the uv/ir-cut filter. however, i realized that all my other lenses are much more less likely to produce those annoying reflections than my 35mm 'cron.

enclosed a shot from last friday without any filter - as you can see something else in the lens lead to a reflection of the candlelight and a strange 'halo'-effect around the light. i bought my 'cron used, but it's relatively recent, serial number is 388 xxxx.

 

anyone else had a similar experience with this or other lenses? any ideas how to avoid this (other than using a different lens for such situations ...)?

 

feedback and comments welcome.

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[wstotler]

anyone else had a similar experience with this or other lenses? any ideas how to avoid this (other than using a different lens for such situations ...)?

 

I've never seen that behavior with my 'cron. It sure does look like a cut-filter reflection--really weird that you're getting that without the filter on. (I've had the *exact* trouble you're showing with the "birthday cake" shot and a cut filter.)

 

Thanks,

Will

[jaapv]

Well, a filter is not the only glass surface in a lens. It is possible to induce flare in any optical system, and this is just the type of shot to do it.

[vla]

will, jaapv - thanks for your comments.

 

i am fully aware of the fact that lenses do not 'need' filters to produce flare. what strikes me is the fact that my 35mm 'cron seems to be so much more susceptible to flare than my other leica glass. and i would like to know whether this is something also experienced by other 35mm 'cron users or not.

 

further comments,

markus

[Philinflash]

...my 35mm 'cron seems to be so much more susceptible to flare than my other leica glass...

 

Agree...that is my experience, too. I have reduced it somewhat by modifying the lens hood to mask out extraneous light. That works for out-of-frame light sources but would not help for your candlelight situation.

[batmobile]

This is one area where the ZM Biogon is mind bogglingly good.

 

This does seem pretty extreme though for a modern leica lens without a filter. Loks almost like a kind of ghosting.

[Nicoleica]

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Just a thought, but could these reflections be caused by some out-of-frame reflective item? (Something metallic on the table perhaps?) The reflections appear to be groups of 3 lines rather than just single blobs.

[jaapv]

will, jaapv - thanks for your comments.

 

i am fully aware of the fact that lenses do not 'need' filters to produce flare. what strikes me is the fact that my 35mm 'cron seems to be so much more susceptible to flare than my other leica glass. and i would like to know whether this is something also experienced by other 35mm 'cron users or not.

 

further comments,

markus

 

Is it the asph? - I have that one and it is very flare-resistant. I understand that was one of the improvements over the previous version.

[mjh]

i am fully aware of the fact that lenses do not 'need' filters to produce flare. what strikes me is the fact that my 35mm 'cron seems to be so much more susceptible to flare than my other leica glass.

It is not your usual kind of flare after all, but a reflection of light off the sensor, back to the lens where it gets reflected for a second time to hit the sensor as a mirror image (in this case the two flames appearing upside-down across the child’s face). This is more prevalent with flat surface such as filters, but lenses can produce the same effect (note that the backside of the Summicron’s aspherical element is more or less flat).

[chilihead]

"This is one area where the ZM Biogon is mind bogglingly good".

- agreed - The 35 ZM Biogon is "mind bogglingly good!"

[epand56]

I've only had that kind of reflexes when using lenses with the UV/IR filter on, shooting in dark environment (night, candlelight etc.) no matter the lens I was using.

But generally the reflexes I've got were greenish and once dismounted the filter they were no longer there.

However, direct candle light is a bad beast to deal with.

[Peter Branch]

If I get a picture with flare, either of the spot or broad patch variety, then I can almost be certain I was using my 35mm Summicron-M ASPH. It is by far the most flare prone Leica lens I own. As others have remarked it does not have to be a bright object in the field of view of the M8 to cause problems. That said I can get flare with any of the other lenses if I subject them to a particularly severe test. The least flare prone sems to be the 50mm Summilux-M ASPH.

[jaapv]

I think Michael's explanation is correct about the flat rear element and the sensor. I have used mine mostly on film - and it is very flare resistant in that case. I never had flare on the M8 either, but then I would not use it in such circumstances, I would mount the Nokton 35/1.2

[Philinflash]

This is one area where the ZM Biogon is mind bogglingly good.

 

This does seem pretty extreme though for a modern leica lens without a filter. Loks almost like a kind of ghosting.

 

I did an informal back-to-back test of the ZM against the 35 'cron and the ZM seemed more resistant to flare. Too bad about the absence of coding, however. Except for that, the ZM would be my first choice.

[Olsen]

These kind of reflections are common on all digital cameras, unfortunately.

 

I get the same result (with or without filters) when shooting either with 1Ds III (or I or II) or M8. It is a reflex of the shiny candles that reflex at the sensor surface, and, most likely, the rear lens surface. My impression is that certain fast lenses are more prone than others. The two worst in my stable are Leica Noctilux 50 mm 1,0 and Canon's EF 50 mm 1,0L.

[vla]

good evening,

 

thank you to everybody for taking the time to answer my questions. mine is an aspherical 'cron and there was no reflective item on the table. interesting that some of you confirmed the special susceptibility of the 35 mm 'cron asph to flare.

 

@ michael and olsen - your explanations make a lot of sense. i wonder if fast lenses and large sensors generally are more susceptible to this problem than other cameras. i never had this kind of problem with my eos 400d and standard canon zoom lens.

 

bottom-line seems to be that there is not much i can do to avoid this problem, other than avoiding certain lighting situation. this is frustrating, indeed ...

however, i will compare my 'cron with one of its more recent siblings. maybe the most recent 'crons show some sort of improvement.

 

i am enclosing three more shots -

1) m8+35 mm summarit - very similar effect, but not as bad as with the 'cron

2) + 3) canon 400d with cheap 'plastic' lens under challenging lighting - several other issues, e.g. hot pixels, noise, but no reflexions (no, i don't want to start a canon vs. leica thread ...)

 

markus

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[Guest Lotw]

Olsen's explanation (and Michael's) is an eye-opener to me, thanks!! I have these reflections too, with my Summilux 35 ASPH, but only with candles, so far

[Guest Lotw]

Although Puts holds that it's the UV/IR filter that is responsible for these aberrations:

 

M8_seven

[vla]

agree - michael and olsen offer a very good explanation. however, i still wonder why such effects never ocurred on my previous eos 400d ...

markus

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Guest Lotw]

I just tested again, with 3 candles, with and without filter, but in both cases three reflections come up: green without filter, magenta with filter (:-). Summilux 50 other lenses no problem