Frank Sprow Posted November 20, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 20, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having owned all the M's from double-stroke M3 thru M7 and now the M8 I thought I'd share a few observations: 1. The "feel" of the camera is wonderful. All the M touch is there; the added width is a little different in feel, but no worse. Viewfinder and all other aspects are perfect in my hands. Auto white balance is sometimes well off. The removable bottom plate is nostalgic but I could do without it. 2. Since I can't tell much from looking at computer screens and only do JPEG's (after quite a period spent in the past with Nikon/Canon Raw and Photoshop), I had a local pro lab work up some 16x20's and compared them with images taken the same day with the M7 (Provia 100) and my Nikon D2X. The resolution and "snap" of the M8 is by far the best (spectacular in fact), though colors were best on the Nikon. Lenses on the M8 and D2X were 28mm, 35mm on the M7. 3. My favorite film M lenses are the 35 and 90mm, so I am using the 28/2.8 aspheric and the 75/2.0 aspheric (my best lens) on the M8. 4. As for the reported problem areas, I've seen no banding and the magenta cast is evident on some blacks. Will be happy to apply the Leica "fix" when available but I encourage them to take their time. I'm in no hurry. 5. Re the 'fix", I guess as an engineer I'm just a little closer to new technology than some, but my expectation is never for early (or often ever) perfection. Examples would be: - Nikon D1 colors (those are colors?). D200 banding (is everyone in prison?). D2X back focus (why is only the horizon in focus?). - Porsche thermal exhaust reactors (want to burn your house down?). - Various pieces of high end audio gear (7 preamp returns to Audio Research). - New Lexus LS460 self park (self destruct?) All were or will be sorted out. Think I'll go out in Central Park now (beautiful, cold day) and take some pix ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 Hi Frank Sprow, Take a look here Two weeks with M8 from old Leica user . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jonoslack Posted November 20, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 20, 2006 2. Since I can't tell much from looking at computer screens and only do JPEG's (after quite a period spent in the past with Nikon/Canon Raw and Photoshop), HI Frank - thank you for that - I found it most interesting - I've had mine for two weeks as well, but unlike you I'm not a long term Leica users. I have used lots of different dSLR cameras though. I was interested in your comment about shooting jpg - I always like to shoot jpg, but with most cameras I've finally resorted to RAW in desperation - I'd been doing that on the Leica as well, mostly because of the eccentric white balance (mind you, I now set it for the circumstances, and it seems to work quite well). Have you found the jpgs to be 'good enough' I'd love to go back to shooting them, but I'm a bit wary! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted November 20, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 20, 2006 Thanks for your report. I'm sure that the M8 is as smooth as when I got to experience it for a few minutes during Photoplus Expo this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 20, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 20, 2006 I don't think I'd ever advocate shooting JPEG only - you can guarantee the one unrepeatable shot is the one where the AWB screws up. However, JPEGs certainly have a role, life is too short to mess around with every picture you take and I've certainly been spoiled by the D2X where the AWB is rarely fooled. Not sure the M8 AWB will ever be as good but it does look like it's better when there's less IR around. My own tests with the M8 AWB in artificial light showed it was pretty awful and it's not clear that dialling in the colour temperature or using a white card will fix it. So for now, I would say that (A)WB in artificial light is pretty much unusable. Just bought one of these Gossen colour temperature meters to help me test the effectiveness of entering it manually. colormaster_e.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted November 20, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 20, 2006 Just bought one of these Gossen colour temperature meters to help me test the effectiveness of entering it manually. Mark: so now in addition to $1000 in unplanned and unwanted IR filters I need to buy a colormeter. UGH! (Are you listening, Leica?) Frank: Your start with double-stroke M3s and progress through the M7 eerily mirrors my own roadmap. If the M8 ever works half as good as the M3, we'll all be in good shape indeed. -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachkebia Posted November 20, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 20, 2006 Think I'll go out in Central Park now (beautiful, cold day) and take some pix ! Park photography, thats why M8 so popular Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sprow Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share #7 Posted November 20, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Re the JPEG's, I find that if I take the extra time to get everything correct in the camera re exposure, lighting etc. I both get better pictures (probably by slowing down!) and the enlargements look beautiful. I have not done this with the M8, but I've been known to take the RAW/JPEG combination in my D2X although I rarely dig out the RAW file from Aperture (a non-optimized product in my opinion) and used it. Yes, I still have my double stroke M3 and would not part with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 20, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 20, 2006 Mark: so now in addition to $1000 in unplanned and unwanted IR filters I need to buy a colormeter. UGH! (Are you listening, Leica?) The tests I've done so far suggest that even selecting specific Kelvin does not work under incandescent, so I figured a colour meter would remove the guess work of manually entered colour temperatures - residual colour errors would be down to the camera. I know a lot of folks don't bother with JPEGs but I think that if they are ever going to be viable, in-camera WB needs to work reliably across a wide range of shooting conditions. Given the amount of time this camera has been in development, it does make you wonder what, precisely, they have been doing all this time. I always worried the World Cup was going to be a distraction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted November 20, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 20, 2006 Thanks for this post Frank. What's this about Porsches and self combusting exhausts? Please show us some pics from the park. Regards, Rick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradreiman Posted November 21, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 21, 2006 hey mark-how much is the gossen? how are your results? i think manual white balance should do the exact same thing once its sorted. ive had zero luck with manual white on the m8. shooting alot of bnw. also getting good color in "cloudy" and AWB in natural light and outdoor mixed light......B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevenrk Posted November 21, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 21, 2006 I always worried the World Cup was going to be a distraction. Mark, Brilliant! That's got to be it. And one has to respect putting aside development of the M8 for the world cup. Steven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbesz Posted November 21, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 21, 2006 Thanks for your positive feedback Frank (the bottom line is always the best one ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sprow Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share #13 Posted November 21, 2006 In response to Rick's question, in 1977 Porsche had the great idea that to meet the newest US emissions regulations, they would avoid catalytic converters (being adopted by pretty much everyone else) on the 911 and install chambers in the exhaust which an air pump driven by the engine blew air into, providing more combustion of unburned hydrocarbons. Problem was the reactors ran so hot that when I (and others) parked mine in the driveway over some dry leaves they caught fire and if I hadn't been outside, would have burned up the car. In any case, Porsche resolved the problem, kept and continued to grow their devoted customer base (me too) -- just as I expect Leica will do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 21, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 21, 2006 hey mark-how much is the gossen? how are your results? i think manual white balance should do the exact same thing once its sorted. ive had zero luck with manual white on the m8. shooting alot of bnw. also getting good color in "cloudy" and AWB in natural light and outdoor mixed light......B Brad, I'm waiting for the meter to arrive from Germany - quite expensive though, nearly $1000. It's going to be interesting to see how its readings compare with the "standard" values - Incandescent 3000, Fluorescent 4200, Sunlight 5200, Flash 5400, Cloudy 6000, Shade 8000. This meter measures colour temperature for ambient and flash. The AWB looks OK for sunlight but is way off at the lower end of the range and doing manual white off a card doesn't work for me either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 21, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 21, 2006 and doing manual white off a card doesn't work for me either. Have you tried using a neutral grey card? White isn't always best for this task. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 21, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 21, 2006 Waiting for one to come from gretagmacbeth. This camera is costing me a fortune LOL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted November 21, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 21, 2006 Brad, I'm waiting for the meter to arrive from Germany - quite expensive though, nearly $1000. It's going to be interesting to see how its readings compare with the "standard" values - Incandescent 3000, Fluorescent 4200, Sunlight 5200, Flash 5400, Cloudy 6000, Shade 8000. This meter measures colour temperature for ambient and flash. The AWB looks OK for sunlight but is way off at the lower end of the range and doing manual white off a card doesn't work for me either. Hi Mark, There is a certain downside to AWB that comes up in "good light" in landscapes where the light is warm or golden and you want to capture it that way. AWB has a nifty trait of turning that special golden glow to studio white:( This has sent me into the presets on the M8 and may push me to the Kelvin side eventually. In my experience WB with artificial light sources is always a gamble and I just hope to get something that can be corrected in PP. I'll be interested in your experiences with the color meter. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 21, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 21, 2006 Bob, I accept AWB does not work all the time, but it should at least work some of the time. What I do not know for sure yet (hence the meter) is that if you do actually key in the correct Kelvin, does the camera get the colour balance right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 21, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 21, 2006 Waiting for one to come from gretagmacbeth. This camera is costing me a fortune LOL. There was a grey card from Leica packed with my M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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