graeme_hutton Posted September 13, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 13, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica FAQ - Leica M8 Digital Might shed some light on 'banding' (if you excuse the pun)....Mine seems an early model so perhaps I should have it checked by solms? Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Hi graeme_hutton, Take a look here Leica M8 and banding at ISO 640. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
maddav Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share #22 Posted September 13, 2009 I think the early ones in question are really the very first (the first 1500 or so) so even mine shouldn't be in that lot. Furthermore mine has already been in Solms two years ago (to fix a hot pixel). My serial is 310000XXX. What you could do, however, is send the DNGs to Leica (M8.Support) because when they saw my pictures they said it was not normal but they were not sure what it was.. With your permission I could refer to your mail. But beware! Their mailbox can't handle more than one DNG at the same time because of attachment size restrictions... I told them I was wondering how they would do with the S2... That was a few days before the M9 announcement... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_hutton Posted September 13, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 13, 2009 I think the early ones in question are really the very first (the first 1500 or so) so even mine shouldn't be in that lot.Furthermore mine has already been in Solms two years ago (to fix a hot pixel). My serial is 310000XXX. What you could do, however, is send the DNGs to Leica (M8.Support) because when they saw my pictures they said it was not normal but they were not sure what it was.. With your permission I could refer to your mail. But beware! Their mailbox can't handle more than one DNG at the same time because of attachment size restrictions... I told them I was wondering how they would do with the S2... That was a few days before the M9 announcement... Where do I email for M8 support? Please feel free to forward my observations on this issue and I'd be very grateful if you could keep me informed. Regards Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted September 13, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 13, 2009 3) The OP need to understand exposure a bit better before complaining about the camera. Seriously; if you had exposed this by 2 more stops you'd have a shot here. Quite possibly so, but I think you are being a bit unnecessarily harsh on the OP. Exposure isn't always about making black cats in coal cellars look like grey ones. There's a tendency nowadays to treat high ISO capable cameras as a kind of surrogate flash and I see a lot of shots where dark interiors end up looking as if lit by daylight (and not necessarily the better for it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddav Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted September 13, 2009 Exposure isn't always about making black cats in coal cellars look like grey ones. I couldn't agree more!! That being said, I have a lot of underexposed pictures, not because I don't know how to adjust exposure as was suggested but because I do not have time to set the exposure properly and/or I am always at f/2 1/11 or 1/8 and I simply can't do more (in my experience it is usually better to push the pictures recorded at 640 than to use 1250)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddav Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share #26 Posted September 13, 2009 @Graeme: I have sent you the address in a private message. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted September 13, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 13, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Banding is normal on the M8 when underexposing at medium-high ISO. It happens to me any time I forgot the simple rule of overexposing a couple stops when working in low light conditions. Obviously when this is possible, often overexposing in critic light conditions means going to very long exposure times that make hand held pictures almost impossible (to me... ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddav Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share #28 Posted September 13, 2009 Then it looks like this is really a problem of the sensor/firmware that is common to all these cameras... But the folks in Solms should be able to tell it when seeing the picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted September 14, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 14, 2009 So here we go... First, on my calibrated EIZO--the banding in your shot is nearly invisible and the "banding" on my rework of it is completely invisible. On my Toshiba laptop (the whole computer cost less than a third of the EIZO!) I can see banding in both shots. So at least part of this is the monitor setup. Secondly, Graeme's shots are completely different than yours. They're exposed reasonably properly, and he's had one shot (out of how many?) not read out properly from the sensor. So I don't believe they're the same problem at all. Finally, as Ian points out, I'm not trying to tell you to make darkness light as day... but there are times when you have to record more detail and burn (make darker) in post because the camera just won't record it. So in your shot, the boy is nowhere near 1 stop under for where his face "normally" would be. He's 4 stops under--so you're asking the camera for ISO 10K where his face is! It doesn't matter what the meter said, it's measuring the highlights (which should be blown) and the other, brighter parts of the shot. So the only way to save this is to get more levels there. The easiest way to do this would be to expose more then make darker. In this case, if you can't go lower ISO for reasons of aperture and shutter, you are better to go to a higher ISO and get a full exposure then burn in post. If you do this, even the noise will go away. I'm actually trying to be helpful here While maybe a trip to Solms or NJ will fix this, I kind of doubt it looking at the exposure. I'd be happy to be wrong, because it's true that ISO 640 usually has two stops of latitude in the shadows without banding or noise. But I still think you've asked for more than 2 stops there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 14, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 14, 2009 One additional comment regarding "early" and "late" cameras. Whenever you send a camera to Leica for service, warranty or billable, they update the camera to current standards. So if you've sent your camera to Leica for any reason after the end of January 2008 (I think it was then), the camera has the later electronics and fits into the category of "late" camera. (There may be a "latest" version as well, but SFAIK the last major change to the circuit configuration was the end of January after the camera had been on the market for a year--which I think means end of January 2008.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_hutton Posted September 15, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 15, 2009 From Leica..... 15. September 2009/ Ulrich Deiß / Infoservice / Telefon 06442 208 - 111 / Telefax - 455 / info@leica-camera.com Dear Mr. Graeme, Thanks for your interest in the Leica M system. The mentioned intermittent failure is now known by our Quality Department. We will fix that by a later LEICA M8 firmware update. So is it not necessary to rectify the camera before warranty runs out. Thank you for your understanding. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards i. A. Ulrich Deiß Leica Camera AG / Informationsservice / Oskar-Barnack-Straße 11 / D-35606 Solms / Leica Camera AG / info@leica-camera.com / Telefon +49 (0) 6442-208-111 / Telefax 49 (0) 6442-208-339 Werden Sie Zeuge der Enthüllung der nächsten Generation von Leica Kameras. Witness the unveiling of the next generation of Leica cameras. Leica Camera AG -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Graeme Hutton [mailto:] Gesendet: Montag, 14. September 2009 15:01 An: M8 Support; Unzustellbar Betreff: M8 Intermittent Banding Dear Leica My M8, purchased December 2007 serial 3200xxx, is showing intermittent banding at higher iso. Of the exposures attached one shows the problem (20038). The photograph showing the banding was the only one in a series taken on 'continuous shoot' mode to show the problem. Others before and after were all like the other shot attached (20039) and unaffected. Is this an issue I should have rectified before my warranty runs out? Regards Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted September 15, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 15, 2009 From Leica..... ... "We will fix that by a later LEICA M8 firmware update."... Well that's GREAT news: Leica intends to continue to release firmware updates for the M8. Wey-hey! Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted September 15, 2009 Share #33 Posted September 15, 2009 Well that's GREAT news: Leica intends to continue to release firmware updates for the M8. Wey-hey! Pete. Yes, that's good news. I don't expect any new features after watching the Stefan Daniel interview on Luminous Landscape. Maybe the feature set of the M8 and the M8.2 will become the same, but no addition of the M9 features like bracketing or manual lens selection. The M8.x project is finished, now only maintenance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfleica Posted September 15, 2009 Share #34 Posted September 15, 2009 Following on from Pete's post above. I'm sure that most of you are aware that when traveling by air, your memory cards are best left in your bag, rather than your pocket. X-rays don't affect cards in the same way that they do films, but some metal detector scanners can nuke a card without blinking. Likewise, try to avoid leaving memory cards in close proximity to a CRT screen (TV or computer monitor.), as some can generate a hefty RF & magnetic field. didn't know this. great tip. thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddav Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share #35 Posted September 15, 2009 "I'd be happy to be wrong, because it's true that ISO 640 usually has two stops of latitude in the shadows without banding or noise." It's good that you reckon that because I do see the banding at +1 (I barely see it at zero). And that was my point: I didn't increase exposure by +3 or 4... As for the boy, well yes it may be four stop under, but I intended to have it only a bit brighter. Not quite a silhouette, I wanted some coulours to show, but very dark. In fact to be honest I didn't intend anything when I took the picture, I am just talking about what I like, or would like to do, now. As I said I like this picture 1 stop brighter, perhaps a little more... The issue here may not be my screen in itself but that my room is usually quite dark so the screen may be a tad too bright relative to the ambient light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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