sean_reid Posted September 10, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) sean, did you try the CV 12mm or CV 15mm M-mount? i tried the latter and got horrible colour vignetting (with the WATE 16mm setting). i was really disappointed since i was looking forward to using the CV wides.any insights? peter There's a vignetting problem with the CV 15 which, if I recall, may also vignette on film? I've done some of those tests but they're not written up yet. Still working on some testing in response to questions from Leica engineers. As of now I wouldn't recommend the CV 15 (maybe also the 12) on the M9 but the WATE works well. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here LL Review up. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
nugat Posted September 10, 2009 Share #22 Posted September 10, 2009 CV15 vignettes on film like 2-3 stops. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/96155-ll-review-up/?do=findComment&comment=1027836'>More sharing options...
bebert Posted September 10, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 10, 2009 That's an error. The hi-bit files are 14-bit though LR works with them in a 16-bit space. I thought they had fixed all those references but there must still be some out there. Cheers, Sean Dear Sean, what are in our view the advantages of having this 14-bit workflow vs. 8-bit concerning image and tonal quality? I remember well the debates (sometimes very technical) about Leica M8's statement on the advantages of a 8-bit flow (higher giving no real improvements). Since I understand that the M9's sensor of the same nature as for the M8's (but may be I am wrong), should we consider the 14-bit jump as bringing really better IQ? But may be this will covered in your reviews. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebert Posted September 10, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 10, 2009 Humm. Seems like a rather grumpy group. Why not take pleasure in how good the M9 is rather than sniping? Why not ask some questions and wait for considered answers rather than making rude accusations and jumping to conclusions? Sorry, I suppose that after 50 years as a working pro and photographic educator and journalist I don't qualify by some people's standards as a "true photographer", so please feel free to ignore anything that I have to say. No wonder I haven't visited here in more than two years. Sean, you're a more patient man than me. Michael Dear Michael, my intention was not to hurt you or to treat you as not a true photographer. I would not dare and I apologize. You are one of the most known landscape photographer and your site is just a reference even in France (and sorry for my poor English), including on the "summilux.net" site. I just wanted to thank Sean Reid for his review and for his site and I am always touched by his pictures and points of view. To be honnest, I was waiting more from your review in terms of image quality and your personal feeling on what comes out of the M9. Sorry again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted September 10, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 10, 2009 Michael, Sean, tough crowd, but lots of us are grateful. Leica knows exactly who its key opinion formers are and for good reason. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 10, 2009 Share #26 Posted September 10, 2009 There's a vignetting problem with the CV 15 which, if I recall, may also vignette on film? I've done some of those tests but they're not written up yet. Still working on some testing in response to questions from Leica engineers. As of now I wouldn't recommend the CV 15 (maybe also the 12) on the M9 but the WATE works well. Cheers, Sean thanks sean! i didn't like the distortion and mushy corners of the WATE on the M8, so i gather i shall like it less on the M9. i will buy the leica 18mm f3.8 and see what it does. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted September 10, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) thanks sean! i didn't like the distortion and mushy corners of the WATE on the M8, so i gather i shall like it less on the M9. i will buy the leica 18mm f3.8 and see what it does.peter Yes, the WATE has some linear distortion, but mushy corners??? I'm glad that my copy at least doesn't suffer that. True, the 18 is slightly better up to f/8 but the difference won't be very much. Note that the 18 also has distortion; it maxes out at about 1.9% while the WATE maxes out at about 2.4% at 18mm. As a matter of interest the Zeiss 18 maxes out at less than 1% distortion, so if that parameter is of critical importance that's certainly the way to go. On the other hand, it will almost certainly (dependent on sample variations) have lesser corner performance than the WATE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 10, 2009 Share #28 Posted September 10, 2009 Yes, the WATE has some linear distortion, but mushy corners??? I'm glad that my copy at least doesn't suffer that. True, the 18 is slightly better up to f/8 but the difference won't be very much. Note that the 18 also has distortion; it maxes out at about 1.9% while the WATE maxes out at about 2.4% at 18mm. As a matter of interest the Zeiss 18 maxes out at less than 1% distortion, so if that parameter is of critical importance that's certainly the way to go. On the other hand, it will almost certainly (dependent on sample variations) have lesser corner performance than the WATE. thanks! well, my copy of the WATE was rather bad at 16mm. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennB Posted September 10, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 10, 2009 CV15 vignettes on film like 2-3 stops. Nugat, is this image from the screw mount CV 15mm or the newer M mount CV 15mm ? Or are they exactly the same ? Thanks, Glenn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted September 10, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 10, 2009 Of course the customer is always right. Except when he's wrong. Michael There are far too many yes-people in every part of life. Please keep calling the ball as YOU see it. If I want to find only people who agree with me and don't stimulate any critical thinking, I know only too well where to find them... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 10, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 10, 2009 Nugat, is this image from the screw mount CV 15mm or the newer M mount CV 15mm ? Or are they exactly the same ?Thanks, Glenn Optically, they should be the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 10, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 10, 2009 Something for people to chew on from Michael's review: "UPDATE Be aware that as of initial shipment there are no profiles available for the M9. This means that you should not make any judgments about colour reproduction of images that you view online." This is important - we're seeing knocking of the M9 because of an easy to fix magenta cast - as an early adopter this time round I'm grateful to hear this kind of information from MR and to pick up information from Sean's excellent reviews. I'm not only looking for good news - but I'd like to give credit to those who share their honesty and expertise through the reviews that they offer. I've followed Michael's and Sean's work over the years and it's always been useful and trustworthy. Their good name is their reputation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 10, 2009 Share #33 Posted September 10, 2009 Thanks Chris. There is now, reportedly, an M9 profile in C1 and we'll see how good it is soon. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
footnoteblog Posted September 10, 2009 Share #34 Posted September 10, 2009 I thought both reviews were pretty good; thanks. Sean did mention he was going to continue to test the M9 platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 11, 2009 Share #35 Posted September 11, 2009 I thought both reviews were pretty good; thanks. Sean did mention he was going to continue to test the M9 platform. Yes, today I ended up spending a lot of time testing for some information that an engineer at Leica wanted confirmed. Tomorrow I should be able to sort and present the ISO comparison pictures and I'll use C1 to do everything. LR is a good program but I'm much faster with C1 and I know how to get the results I need from it. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmanley Posted September 11, 2009 Share #36 Posted September 11, 2009 Here: Leica M9 First Look Doesn't say anything useful. Sandy He bought one! That's a pretty useful recommendation to me. Tina Tina Manley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 11, 2009 Share #37 Posted September 11, 2009 There are far too many yes-people in every part of life. ... One of Joseph Stalin's favorite sayings, on which he also based many of his actions, was: No people, no problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted September 11, 2009 Share #38 Posted September 11, 2009 what are in our view the advantages of having this 14-bit workflow vs. 8-bit concerning image and tonal quality? The way the M8/9 compresses the data to 8 bits means that you will likely not see a difference in the images as they come out of the camera. If you do a lot of post processing though (e.g. strong curves adjustments) you will likely see differences -- the compressed version will show gradations that are not as smooth as the uncompressed one. Having said that: the M8 files have proven to be pretty malleable, so it remains to be seen how big of a difference it will really be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolu Posted September 14, 2009 Share #39 Posted September 14, 2009 He bought one! That's a pretty useful recommendation to me. Tina Tina Manley You nailed it ! Nothing is more useful than this. rolu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 14, 2009 Share #40 Posted September 14, 2009 If you do a lot of post processing though (e.g. strong curves adjustments) you will likely see differences -- the compressed version will show gradations that are not as smooth as the uncompressed one. I've been saying this for a while and so far the vast majority of opinion on this forum (or rather the M8 section) has been very insistent that those differences will never be apparent. I'm sure a lot of people have changed their view now, but two options come to mind: 1. Someone shows the difference in a real world test 2. Subject to processor write times, Leica update the firmware for the M8 so that the user can choose to have a slower camera and trade-off with 14bit files. Digital highlight transitions have long been my bugbear - anything that improves that gets my vote, irrespective of camera model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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