Guest BigSplash Posted October 6, 2009 Share #41 Posted October 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Zeiss lenses in the Mayfair flagship shop? "You cannot be serious" dunk I understand your point and believe that Leica Mayfair will be of the same mind....That said: Leica do not make a 15mm lens, and many Leica owners have bought the Zeiss or less expensive Voigtlander. There is no competition with Leica at this focal length although the Tri Elmar at 16mm is pretty close. Successful companies go out of their way to be client driven, and relate well to the needs of the client. Showing a 3rd party product that enhances the usage of your own product is surely a step towards being client centric. Why should I go to Classic Camera (They are not an official UK Leica distributor theswe days) and try out a Zeiss 15mm, a Leica 18mm and a Voigtlander 15mm .....They are the only place I can think of in London that have normally all of those lenses in stock........is that really Leica leading edge client service? I would NOT suggest Mayfair stock those Zeiss lenses that compete directly with the Leica equivalent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Hi Guest BigSplash, Take a look here Leica Mayfair Store Open. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted October 6, 2009 Share #42 Posted October 6, 2009 It's a Leica flagship store. Why should they stock other manufacturers' cameras and/or lenses? Do Ferrari dealers sell Volkswagen Golfs because Ferrari don't make a small hatchback? Assuming it's going to be used on a digital body, the 15mm Voigtlander is an unsupported lens on either the M8 or the M9. If used with a standard adaptor it will produce gross colour casts towards the edge of the frame. Maybe you think Leica will be happy to tell the buyer that it's ok violate their patents and use the lens with a coded mount? Results from a coded 15mm used with an M9 have been less than stellar from the examples I've seen, with quite severe colour casts towards the edges. How would Leica sell that to the customer? "Buy this lens, but don't expect to get good results with it"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 6, 2009 Share #43 Posted October 6, 2009 Why on earth would Leica Mayfair want to have Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses on show? And how Leica Mayfair selling all sorts of bits and pieces helps their dealers, I have yet to work out. I am surprised that they don't have all these things in stock anyway - Red Dot Cameras do... What Leica UK should do is make sure that their dealers are provided with stock in a timely manner. Having to wait a month for a 35 ASPH lens cap (and having to pay £21 for the privilege of buying a 10p piece of plastic) is just ridiculous. I would have thought that the rent in Mayfair was far too high to waste on a workshop doing minor repairs to cameras, especially when they have that big shed in Milton Keynes too. What they should do, IMHO, is make sure that the person there who fixes things, isn't the same guy who goes out demonstrating binoculars for weeks at a time. Mayfair could, however, be a receiving and giving point for work to be done at MK. I will make a point of going in there next time I am in London. I was going to go last Thursday, but went to a proper dealer instead. Andy : I can see your feeling about Zeiss ( see my reply on this one) ....I guess it maybe pride for the brand, or loyalty to the marque fighting a desire to see a 15mm lens that Leica unfortunately do NOT make....The nearest is the WATE trielmar and that is expensive, slow, and most people only use for the 16mm anyway. Many people do buy the Zeiss ...I have not had the chance yet to try it out and would like to. Mayfair did not have the bits I listed ...and are now moving to get them. I agree dealers should have this also. Actually Ivor at Red Dot made the comment to me that he was unhappy that he does keep these bits and leica Mayfair were not providing these items for their clients. Les at RG Lewis invariably tells me that he cannot get from the shed in M.Keynes items such as a flash connector for a M4, and even M rear lens caps have been difficult to get hold of. Andy you are certainly correct that Leica Milton Keynes should be providing these items to dealers when ordered very very fast, and at a price that is realistic. I just bought two M rear lens caps and felt robbed! I agree that servicing should be done off site ...maybe with a daily collection and delivery. However I think that the space required for sensor cleaning, shutter speed and rangefinder calibration is a clean desk and some equipment. If someone who has been trained to do simple work like this is on hand at Mayfair surely that is good isn't it? Agree with you if it is true that the technician at Milton Keynes is being taken away from servicing.....maybe they should use Malcolm Taylor, or Phil (a technician who has a good reputation ..I believe he does work for Ivor and RG Lewis) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 6, 2009 Share #44 Posted October 6, 2009 I have not had the chance yet to try it out and would like to. Go to Robert White then. They are only a 5 minute walk from Mayfair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share #45 Posted October 6, 2009 I understand your point and believe that Leica Mayfair will be of the same mind....That said: Leica do not make a 15mm lens, and many Leica owners have bought the Zeiss or less expensive Voigtlander. There is no competition with Leica at this focal length although the Tri Elmar at 16mm is pretty close. Successful companies go out of their way to be client driven, and relate well to the needs of the client. Showing a 3rd party product that enhances the usage of your own product is surely a step towards being client centric. Why should I go to Classic Camera (They are not an official UK Leica distributor theswe days) and try out a Zeiss 15mm, a Leica 18mm and a Voigtlander 15mm .....They are the only place I can think of in London that have normally all of those lenses in stock........is that really Leica leading edge client service? I would NOT suggest Mayfair stock those Zeiss lenses that compete directly with the Leica equivalent Your suggestions are not viable or practical or common sensical. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 6, 2009 Share #46 Posted October 6, 2009 It's a Leica flagship store. Why should they stock other manufacturers' cameras and/or lenses? Do Ferrari dealers sell Volkswagen Golfs because Ferrari don't make a small hatchback? Assuming it's going to be used on a digital body, the 15mm Voigtlander is an unsupported lens on either the M8 or the M9. If used with a standard adaptor it will produce gross colour casts towards the edge of the frame. Maybe you think Leica will be happy to tell the buyer that it's ok violate their patents and use the lens with a coded mount? Results from a coded 15mm used with an M9 have been less than stellar from the examples I've seen, with quite severe colour casts towards the edges. How would Leica sell that to the customer? "Buy this lens, but don't expect to get good results with it"? Steve: The Ferrari example is one where they do sell leather bags that fit the ferrari car from a 3rd party ( Montblanc or Seeger Leather to be precise). They also are increasingly supplying engines to other Formula 1 teams .....However I take your point that mix and match of high end brands (Leica?) with low end brands (Voigtlander) is not a smart move. I thought Zeiss has been repeatedly praised for the quality of their optics, and images produced. Since Leica does not have a 15mm .........! I was not aware that Zeiss have breached Leica patents with respect to the M mount, which I would have thought was by now out of patent. Are your sure? I could imagine the 6 bit coding is still under patent...however the M9 allows manual programmation anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 6, 2009 Share #47 Posted October 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If Zeiss want to open a flagship showroom in or around Mayfair, I am sure that The Duke or the Crown will be delighted to offer them premises at very commercial rents. To suggest that a rival should stock or even display ANY alternative brand is just ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted October 6, 2009 Share #48 Posted October 6, 2009 Andy, does Robert White have a store in london? Cheers, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 6, 2009 Share #49 Posted October 6, 2009 Andy, does Robert White have a store in london? Cheers,John Ooops ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 6, 2009 Share #50 Posted October 6, 2009 I was not aware that Zeiss have breached Leica patents with respect to the M mount, which I would have thought was by now out of patent. Are your sure? I could imagine the 6 bit coding is still under patent...however the M9 allows manual programmation anyway. Frank, I'm referring to the 6 bit coding. Without it the lens fundamentally flawed for the majority of people who would use it with an M9 as there is no profile for that lens in the list that Leica provide - cyan drift correction is not just dependant on focal length. For the M8 there is no practical solution without violating Leica patents. Yes, I know about cornerfix, and while that may work it isn't a mainstream solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 6, 2009 Share #51 Posted October 6, 2009 Andy, does Robert White have a store in london? Cheers, John Erm - no But it's only a short walk to Dorset... It was Richard Caplan I was thinking of. Blame the meds... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted October 6, 2009 Share #52 Posted October 6, 2009 I went to R White's once, it's a great big hanger of a place. Thank's for the reply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 6, 2009 Share #53 Posted October 6, 2009 So. You want to dilute the concept, and take the Mayfair shop straight into head-to-head competition with the other London dealers? Unbelievable. Bill Bill you forget that Frank is supposedly a very highly paid 'consultant' to major businesses, and it's his job, and others like him, to come up with - and ensure implementation of - hair brained ideas like these. Then when the wheels fall off and disaster reigns said consultant is off on their yacht sipping champagne. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 6, 2009 Share #54 Posted October 6, 2009 Bill you forget that Frank is supposedly a very highly paid 'consultant' to major businesses, and it's his job, and others like him, to come up with - and ensure implementation of - hair brained ideas like these. Then when the wheels fall off and disaster reigns said consultant is off on their yacht sipping champagne. I do accept that Leica does not wish to give oxygen to Zeiss however I really wonder about the issues you raise. Let me comment: Robert White is NOT in Mayfair....I spent a few minutes trying to get the address! Many Leica users seem to be ready to spend high prices for 15mm Zeiss lenses yet they are deemed here to be not useable. Also the "only" option to try one of these that I can think of is to go to Classic Camera in London. Noone in the forum sees too fussed about whether or not Leica Mayfair should carry a full range of Leica bits and pieces and accessories ......I personally think that they should! The only critique is that Leica UK (Milton Keynes) needs to do a better job: Servicing the existing dealer network (agreed) Have realistic prices( agreed) Execute faster turnaround times for service items (agreed). So I ask what is the objective of Leica Mayfair that forum members feel the need for? Is it simply a place to view expensive Leica gear that is then purchased at a dealer (maybe?) or a great place for a workshop (certainly this is a great feature?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 6, 2009 Share #55 Posted October 6, 2009 So I ask what is the objective of Leica Mayfair that forum members feel the need for? Is it simply a place to view expensive Leica gear that is then purchased at a dealer (maybe?) or a great place for a workshop (certainly this is a great feature?). Dealers have to buy their stock from Leica. Some dealers cannot afford to stock a full range of cameras and lenses so IMO the Mayfair store should at least have one of everything in the current Leica range so someone can try before they buy (ideally at least two so they can also buy there and then if they so wish). I do agree that they should also stock the smaller items, accessories etc. I would imagine that having visited the Mayfair store, tried an item out in the shop, most would then 'shop around' the other dealers to see how prices compare - I would. It's pretty clear that the purpose of the store is also to support their new camera range and offer pro services, as well as the training sessions etc., to reinforce their offering, much in the way that Apple stores do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 6, 2009 Share #56 Posted October 6, 2009 Many Leica users seem to be ready to spend high prices for 15mm Zeiss lenses yet they are deemed here to be not useable. I don't know how many have been sold. How many would you say is 'many'? One, ten, a hundred? Has the £3000+ Zeiss lens been a big seller? The point is that as far as the general consumer is concerned the lens is not usable on an M8 unless the purchaser, or a technician, violates Leica's patents regarding 6 bit coding. It's one thing for a few individuals to do this as it's not worth Leica's while pursuing them. It's quite another for Leica themselves to advocate patent infringement - which is the only practical solution. Leica may not object to a cottage industry modifying a few lenses, but what do you think Leica's reaction would be if another manufacturer started producing coded lenses? Even if Leica were prepared to give a buyer the contact details of a suitable workshop there is no guarantee that the lens would perform in a manner that satisfied Leica's quality standards. Certainly what I've seen of the Voigtlander 15mm on the M9 bears that out. With the M9 it's possible to 'dial in' a lens, but the preceding paragraph still stands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 6, 2009 Share #57 Posted October 6, 2009 So I ask what is the objective of Leica Mayfair that forum members feel the need for? Is it simply a place to view expensive Leica gear that is then purchased at a dealer (maybe?) or a great place for a workshop (certainly this is a great feature?). I have apologised for the mix up re Robert White and Richard Caplan. When you write "workshop", do you mean a Brett workshop, or a man with a screwdriver and a magnifying glass workshop? Leica Mayfair should be a showroom for their products.There is an argument for them not selling any product at all, but just use it as a window into the Leica world, with the established dealers reaping the rewards. I know of one high end German white good manufacturer who has exactly this concept - they don't sell anything in their showroom, but direct you to a dealer. What they do do, is have demonstrations and hands-on time with their products, exactly as Leica do with their workshops upstairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 6, 2009 Share #58 Posted October 6, 2009 Bill you forget that Frank is supposedly a very highly paid 'consultant' to major businesses, and it's his job, and others like him, to come up with - and ensure implementation of - hair brained ideas like these. Then when the wheels fall off and disaster reigns said consultant is off on their yacht sipping champagne. Actually it appears to be the executive team that ends up sipping the champagne recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 6, 2009 Share #59 Posted October 6, 2009 # #### ###### #### ##### ##### ##### ### ## #### ### ##### ####### ###### ###### #### # ####### ### #### ###### ##### ##: ####### ###### ## ##### #### ######## ### ## # ##### ##### ####### ##! ##### ##### #### ######## ### ### ### ##### #### ##### ### ####### ### #### # #. ##### ## #### ### ####### ## ### #### ##### ### #### ### ########## ## ###### # ##### ### ## ###### ### ###### #### ##. #### ##### #### ######## # #### ## ##### ## ##### ##### #### #### #### ####### ##### ##### ######## ### ### ######## # ####......I personally think #### #### #####! #### #### ####### ## #### ##### ## ### (####### ######) #### ### ## # ###### ##: ######### ### ######## ###### ####### (######) #### ######### ###### (######) ######## ###### ########## ##### ### ####### ##### (#####). ## # ### #### ## ### ######## ## ##### ####### ### ##### ####### #### ### #### ###? ## ## ###### # ##### ## #### ########## ##### #### #### ## #### ######## ### ## ###### (#####)? ## # ##### ##### ### # ######## (######### #### ## # ##### #######). Great stuff this new filtering software. Lets you home in on the true intent behind any post. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 6, 2009 Share #60 Posted October 6, 2009 You could also argue that the other dealers should do more workshops and hands-on demos and provide other value-added services. Perhaps even include Zeiss et al in that if they wish... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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