patrick parker Posted September 6, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Or do you think they already decided to do it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 Hi patrick parker, Take a look here M8-9 upgrade, impossible or unprofitable ? Or... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
giordano Posted September 6, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 6, 2009 Or do you think they already decided to do it ? We shan't know if it's possible until we can look inside the M9. But it'd require at a minimum new sensor, shutter (unless M8.2->9), shutter speed dial, electronics, range/viewfinder, lens throat, and battery housing - and that's assuming the old top plate and base plate can be re-used and it's acceptable to paste a sticker saying ISO next to the M8's Protect button. So I have this sorta feeling it won't be cheap:(. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deek Hertz Posted September 6, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 6, 2009 Hold onto your M8 and M8.2 's until the Photokina '10. 007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 6, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 6, 2009 Mark Norton has already demonstrated why this would not be possible, without throwing every part of the M8 away and replacing it with new parts. (More or less) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 6, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 6, 2009 Highly unlikely in my opinion. We don't know yet how they've squeezed the battery in, but if you just look at the back plate (engraved "Protect" changes to "ISO") and the top plate (Change of model no, removal of circular LCD display and the underlying electronics), even before you get to the sensor and processing electronics, there a significant amount of change. I think we can be certain there will be no upgrade from M8x to M9 and I also expect the M8 to M8u program to die before long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 6, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 6, 2009 Mark, Market economics suggest the upgrade program have to die at some point. it is simply WAY too expensive to maintain a upgrade staff, tools and supplies for a declining number of requests. I like to think Leica is the worlds greatest camera company, but even with a santa hat, they do need to keep a profit of sorts. We are all busy double guessing their choices on which cameras to make and why their choices are going to "doom" the company... continuing the upgrade program, indefinitely, would be a loss leader. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuss Posted September 6, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) on January 30th 2008 I've received (an I suppose many of you too) an email from Leica itself stating that: LEICA M8: An investment in the future With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today’s and tomorrow’s users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. “While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options,” declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. “Our customers can therefore still invest in the photographic tools they need without worrying that they will miss out on improvements and technological developments alo ng the way. Now, just to be evil, when they said "today and tomorrow" they were referring to the 30th and 31st of january ? :D Seriously, they promised me I will "always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology" etc. So I'm just curious to see what they will do with the M9 and existing M8 users... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 6, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 6, 2009 I have something like that too. it will be interesting, time will show. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 6, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 6, 2009 I wonder what Steven K. Lee is doing now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 6, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 6, 2009 I wonder what Steven K. Lee is doing now... I've got a feeling that the M9 is exactly what he has pre-announced at PMA2008 ...then got sacked. He must be laughing at these threads now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 6, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 6, 2009 Maybe they have had alpha and betas since that time, but needed a year to get them right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 6, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 6, 2009 Maybe they have had alpha and betas since that time, but needed a year to get them right? That's quite possible, Andy. I was actually expecting the M9 would at least share the "Maestro" processor with the S2 if not the sensor structure since Leica has kept telling us that the technology developed with the S2 will trickle down to other models. Curiously there's no mentioning about it so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted September 6, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 6, 2009 Or do you think they already decided to do it ? No upgrade, possibly trade-in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 6, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 6, 2009 on January 30th 2008 I've received (an I suppose many of you too) an email from Leica itself.... Seriously, they promised me I will "always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology" etc. So I'm just curious to see what they will do with the M9 and existing M8 users... I think the standard answer to that is - "That was then, this is now." Alternatively - "That was 2 CEOs ago - this is now." Twenty months is a long time in the digital world - especially if it contains the worst economic slump since 1932. I imagine if you have $250 to spend (plus the price of an M9), and ask really nicely, Leica would happily transplant your hot shoe (with serial number) and bottom plate to an M9 body. That's about what an upgrade would amount to, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicajh Posted September 6, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 6, 2009 Trust is a fleeting item here. I started my professional path with Leica as a USAF forensic photographer. I expect my government to lie to me, not Leica. I have: M6 titanium with matching lenses, M7, M8, MP, V35, and a R8. I am thinking very hard about selling all of them. I am past being mad, I am now just sad. Gone to Canon. jh LEICA M8: An investment in the future With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today’s and tomorrow’s users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. “While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options,” declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. “Our customers can therefore still invest in the photographic tools they need without worrying that they will miss out on improvements and technological developments alo ng the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 7, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 7, 2009 leicajh, Honestly there is nothing to be "mad" about, after 3 years of service the M8 have already lived longer than most digital cameras, Im sure it will live and be serviceable for the next 10+ years just fine. I don't know too many "leica professionals" who have ti M6 with matched lenses, but clearly you have a investment in a great system. keep enjoying the M8 and most importantly keep taking great pictures with all of your cameras. Being mad enough to sell them all will only hurt one person (and its not me). Besides, we really don't know what the future for the M8 is, other than its no longer a current production camera. It was good enough for me to shoot a couple of covers in 2009, so why not again in 2010.? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveco Posted September 7, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 7, 2009 I'm not sure based on the brochure, how they solved the IR filter issue, but wonder if it might be possible with to add this if the original cropped sensor in the M8 had to be replaced by a new cropped sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 7, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 7, 2009 daveco - generally speaking, what camera makers get from the sensor makers is a "package" - the silicon chip, plus all the top layers (bayer filters, IR filters, microlenses, AA filter if any, protective glass if any) already sealed together and mounted on a frame containing the gold contact pins. The camera maker basically just plugs it into the mount. So a different IR filter or solution is not something Leica can simply add on in Solms. Especially if, as rumored, the IR filter is now UNDER the microlenses. Kodak would have to make a special run of 1.33x-crop sensors (that fit a camera no longer made) using whatever the new filtering technique/material is. It's probably technically possible - and the cost per sensor would probably be nearly as high as a entire M8 body - without even the labor charge to install it. And then there would have to be a special firmware written for "M8s with new filter installed" - because normal M8 firmware assumes a weak IR filter in calculating corrections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 7, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 7, 2009 No upgrade, possibly trade-in. I agree: the upgrade would be technically and financially unproposable; a trade in campaign (maybe, not from the intro date) could be a difficult marketing exercise but a very interesting one : I bet that in Leica Co. some brainstorming about shall be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted September 7, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 7, 2009 I agree: the upgrade would be technically and financially unproposable; a trade in campaign (maybe, not from the intro date) could be a difficult marketing exercise but a very interesting one : I bet that in Leica Co. some brainstorming about shall be done. But what should Leica do with all the M8s they get? Dump them into the 2. hand market? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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