john_newell Posted August 30, 2009 Share #21 Posted August 30, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) My guess, if an M9 digital is announced, the M8 will be history here, everyone will have to have an M9, turn up for a Leica meeting with an M8 and expect to be sitting on your own in the corner of the pub, the butt of everyone's jokes. Dare not post to the photo forum and admit it's taken with an M8 for fear of critical comment or worse, no comment. This will last for about 6 months then you will start to read threads about M9s having to be returned to Solms for one reason or another, and the users exclaiming that they "used my M8 for the first time in ages and I forgot how much I like this camera" etc., which will mark the start of a renaissance of M8 use. The only two things I want to add to this are: 1. Remember the saga of the M8 and how long it took to fix it. If the M9 breaks new techno-ground, expect the same. 2. The lowly D40, an "old" camera and a "mere" 6mp, will make better files than most photographers are capable of taking advantage of. The M8 has lots of life yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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adli Posted August 30, 2009 Share #22 Posted August 30, 2009 The only two things I want to add to this are: 1. Remember the saga of the M8 and how long it took to fix it. If the M9 breaks new techno-ground, expect the same. M8 were Leicas first digital M camera. When building this, Leica had to learn how to make digital M's. M8 was a revolution, while the M9 will be an evolution of the M8. It think it is safe to asume that Leica will not make the same mistakes twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted August 30, 2009 Share #23 Posted August 30, 2009 If the M9 is FF, t wll not likely be an "evolution." They will be presented with a whole new universe of potential mistakes and oversights. M8 were Leicas first digital M camera. When building this, Leica had to learn how to make digital M's. M8 was a revolution, while the M9 will be an evolution of the M8. It think it is safe to asume that Leica will not make the same mistakes twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racefan Posted September 1, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 1, 2009 My suggestion would be to create an M9 sub-forum _if_ the M9 is announced on the 9th, and then eventually merge that with the M8 forum once the initial excitement had subsided. This would allow M8 users to continue discussing their camera without being drowned in a sea of M9 posts. Once things had settled down a little the two could then be merged as a single 'Digital Rangefinder' sub-forum. This is how it's done with each new major Nikon camera release on the Nikon Cafe Forum and it works quite well. Once the buzz has worn off and the new camera specific posts start to dwindle down, the "New Camera Model" forum is merged back into the main camera hardware forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted September 2, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 2, 2009 [...] This will last for about 6 months then you will start to read threads about M9s having to be returned to Solms ... Ghosting, banding, IR ... issues ... get ready for these, together with your US$8K. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted September 2, 2009 Share #26 Posted September 2, 2009 My suggestion would be to create an M9 sub-forum _if_ the M9 is announced on the 9th, and then eventually merge that with the M8 forum once the initial excitement had subsided. This would allow M8 users to continue discussing their camera without being drowned in a sea of M9 posts. Once things had settled down a little the two could then be merged as a single 'Digital Rangefinder' sub-forum. I think Adreas will probably create the appropriate sub-forum once the official razzmatazz is done. What I would like to see is the ability to 'ignore forum' not just members. Several of the non-photographic forums I frequent allow you to ignore forums or sub-forums and it is a great tool. Allows me when I visit and hit 'new posts' to see the forums I am interested in. Really saves working through a list of stuff I have no interest in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted September 2, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Shift from making analog camera bodies to making digital cameras with the sensor buildt in. that is a paradigm shift in techmology. Releasing a camera with a slightly larger sensor than the previous, that is pure evolution, the production methods are known to the manufacturer. No ground breaking tasks here. Of course a new camera model will always have flaws, but nothing like the M8. If the M9 is FF, t wll not likely be an "evolution." They will be presented with a whole new universe of potential mistakes and oversights.Quote: Originally Posted by adli M8 were Leicas first digital M camera. When building this, Leica had to learn how to make digital M's. M8 was a revolution, while the M9 will be an evolution of the M8. It think it is safe to asume that Leica will not make the same mistakes twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted September 2, 2009 Share #28 Posted September 2, 2009 >Of course a new camera model will always have flaws, but nothing like the M8. I certainly hope so because the so-called "teething pain" still throbs in my memory and they are costly in terms of IR-cut filters, shipping costs and coding costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted September 2, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 2, 2009 Of course a new camera model will always have flaws, but nothing like the M8. I really don't think we know that or can even assume it. If you spec out the M9 the way the posts in this forum have done, it breaks so much new ground that the potential for repeating history is very real. But this is all guesswork until the actual cameras have been in use for a while... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted September 2, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 2, 2009 I really don't think we know that or can even assume it. I think we perfectly well can assume it. If you one day makes more or less all-mechanical bodies for film, and the next day are supposed to make a camera with digital sensors and complex hardware and software, the shift is so big that it huge flaws like the IR thing are explanable (but not excusabe). If you are a manufacturer of digital cameras, and you are supposed to release your next and improved model, huge flaws will be hard to explain (and will be a killer for business) Is it so damn hard to understand that the shift from film to digital is something completely different than releasing your next generation of digital cameras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted September 2, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 2, 2009 I fully agree with the original poster that all rumours about a new M9 don't give any sufficient reason to abandon the M8. Even if a new M9 will have all the qualities everybody hopes for and perhaps even more, this should not make the M8 a camera worse than it has been till now. For me it has been a very good camera, with no issues since i bought it and so i will use it for a good while, even if the M9 is for sale on Friday next week. Before i will make up my mind for buying a M9 it will take a long time, and i will think thrice about that, as I did before buying the M8. This leads me to some practical reasons why I do not support the idea of splitting up a new M9-subforum from the present M8-subforum. Those who buy the new M9 and know the M8 will do a lot of comparing, which will be of great interest for all who havn't made up their minds yet. These comparisons need the M8-context as well as the M9. Those who come new to the M9 without any experience with the M8 (or Leica at all) - and i wish Leica and this forum that there are many - will profit of the M8-experiences, so they need the context as well. Those who like to go on with M8-bashing should have enough room for it - but in the context of the M9. This is also true for those who want to go bashing all Leica or Leica in general. Most important: no Leica camera has ever been sufficient on it's own but only together with lenses. Lenses are the really interesting topic about Leica. There are ten times more Leica- and Leica-fitting lenses than Leica bodies. The present subdivison in the forum is no adaequate solution for this fact. Though i don't see any reason to start a discussion about a subdivision for lenses, i should not like at all if the present problems to find something about a lens would be become bigger than they already are. Today we have to look into Customer-Forum, different digital subforums, analog forum and perhaps historical section to look for lenses (in two parts of the Forum). A further subdivision between M8 and M9 would put all topics related to both cameras or just the lenses in general out of their context. Nobody would profit from this. So it is not only sympathy for the "old" M8 but much more interest in the central topics of this forum which causes me to call for no "Berlin Wall" between M8 and M9 in the organisation of this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted September 3, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 3, 2009 Just rename the M8 sub forum to M Digital and then the job is done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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