stunsworth Posted August 31, 2009 Share #61 Posted August 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have heard this before but is this true and not just another forum rumour. Is there an official S2 list of dealers from Leica AG? Thanks No, it's from Leica not just a rumour, and I'm sure David Farkas would be more than happy to confirm this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here What is happening at Leica?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share #62 Posted August 31, 2009 My experience is limited to one day shooting it, but the opinion of someone I know who has shot it extensively - and whose opinion I trust on these matters - is that there is more to the dSLR/MF debate than the pixel count. Just as I can get a 10 mp camera for a few hundred Euros, or pay a few thousand for an M8, there's more to it than the number of pixels. The pixel count of a p&s and an M8 is the same, so by your logic the image quality must be comparable. Now we know that's not the case. The difference in pixel size between the M8 and a compact camera is very large, and you know it. The differences in pixel size (and sensor size) between 24x36 and 36x48 or larger formats isn't so big, and sometimes the pixel pitch is the same. There are differences due to color filters, antialiasing filters and effective capture area. So you can get from MF cameras more detail per pixel, different color and more tonal resolution or dynamic range. You also have a different relation between DoF, distance and aperture. All that accounts for a significant difference in aesthetics. Anyone knows that. But differences aren't as large as differences in prices. It was the same in the film cameras, but the price was not so significant when you made a choice. The current differences in prices is huge, much larger than it used to be. Besides, the image quality you can get from 35mm by digital means is much better than it was in the film days. Now comes the problem of the output. The requirements for the final images have not increased. Even the contrary is the case in many applications (images for web or TV/screen). Many "pros" that used MF cameras with film now use 35mm digital cameras, because they provide all the image quality needed and because medium format is excessively expensive. And this is the point. This is not true for all pro photographers, but, as the linked article says, "as a result of the (...) significant deterioration in the business potential for high-end medium format cameras"... You can see the consequences of those changes in the market. It is a question of perceived differentiation and price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted August 31, 2009 Share #63 Posted August 31, 2009 On the topic - businesses are hurting everywhere including where I work and we have made a tiny bit more than they thought, we are running on minimal crew with more responsibilities per person with no increase in pay. Leica had only just started to gear-up and then the global crash; the absolute worse thing that could happen, so there are cut-backs and reorganizations everywhere including Leica. As long as they can afford to pay staff to make product they probably will. It also wouldn't surprise me if they did a temporary slowdown or shutdown. They aren't done yet and yes indeed, copy editors can do just that - edit copy with or without the facts - so I plan on treating this like most other second, third, fourth, or fifth-hand information - with casual indifference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 31, 2009 Share #64 Posted August 31, 2009 The problem is dealer's pre-orders are even more meaningless since you don't know what kind of pressure Leica might bring to bear on dealers.. John--I was a salesman for Leitz/Leica for a decade. The company doesn't play games like that. But hardtack: Leica has opened their books and revealed the number of US orders for the S2 they've already got. That opens them up to people who, like me, would like to see the number higher but think that that's nonetheless an excellent start; and to people who, like you, seem to feel 50 units of an untried camera costing in the tens of thousands is a pretty lame effort. What's it called? An "inflection point"? That's where we are. Praise or criticism be damned. from Lola rennt--Der Ball ist rund. Das Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Alles andere ist Theorie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 31, 2009 Share #65 Posted August 31, 2009 I wonder why Leica does not introduce some special offers as a way of stimulating sales as we move towards christmas My golly wumpus, Frank! I don't know about France, but the German and US Leica sites constantly list sales promotions. Isn't the dumping of R stock a solid attempt to raise cash? Wasn't the M8 upgrade program a way to get fresh money? What's the white M8 or the Safari D-Lux 4? In my mind those are special offers. What about the "buy an M8 and take $300 off a lens" promotion? Or the "trade in any working SLR for an M8" offer? Moving toward Christmas (capitalized in English), are we? With an M9 and an S2 coming, you want a "sales promotion"? What, buy two S2s and get an M9 free? Or buy both an M8 upgrade and an M9 and get an S2 for half price? Give me a break! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 31, 2009 Share #66 Posted August 31, 2009 I'm also discouraged by the fact that Leica has apparently turned its back on the 4/3 system -- I don't know whether because of disagreements with Panasonic, or because of a lack of research funding, or what. However, I use M lenses on my G1, and it seems to me that with a little simple re-engineering, a Leica 4/3 camera could make brilliant use of M lenses, and not cost that much to produce. Essentially, it needs an M mount on a Panasonic G1 and some rewritten firmware. And I believe that virtually every M owner would buy one, if only to use with longer lenses (a 135 becomes a 270, and focusing is quick and perfect; and IQ is excellent.) The G1 sells for ~$800, and that includes a profit margin for Panasonic. I think Leica could add a lens mount and software and probably charge $1500, and sell 100,000 of them fairly quickly, along with extra lenses for people who didn't already have them... Ah, well, enough of armchair CEO. I am encouraged by the fact that Leica will guarantee jobs for two years if the employes skip the August holiday. That means they've got cash left. JC Pardon the snipped quote for space. I just wanted to add comment on this one item and say nothing further on the rest. I can only speak about prices in Australia. Here the G1 (only available as a kit) lists for more than the E620 kit and close to the E30. The GH1 lists for an astonishing more than twice the E620 kit or more than four times the street price for the E420 kit. Even more than twice to DLUX 4 to give a Leica comparison.. Completely unsupportable pricing in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thpeters Posted August 31, 2009 Share #67 Posted August 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Howard, I think and try to understand your feelings regarding Leica, but calm down, and relax, think about your heart. Enjoy your leica and go out take pictures in HK if you there. Theo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted August 31, 2009 Share #68 Posted August 31, 2009 Worth a thousand words; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/94816-what-is-happening-at-leica/?do=findComment&comment=1011349'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 31, 2009 Share #69 Posted August 31, 2009 Thanks, red! I needed the reminder. ... calm down, and relax, think about your heart. Enjoy your leica and go out take pictures in HK if you there. Thanks as well to you, Theo. That's unfortunately why I post so seldom. Hong Kong? A long way from Texas, and not currently on my schedule, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 31, 2009 Share #70 Posted August 31, 2009 Just to let people know I have with Andreas approval changed my forum name to "Big Splash" from frankowen@ ........ Unfortunately I have been receiving various spoof emails offering opportunities to earn millions of dollars etc etc ...from what looks like some dodgy sites. Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 31, 2009 Share #71 Posted August 31, 2009 Just to let people know I have with Andreas approval changed my forum name to "Big Splash" from frankowen@ ........ Modest to a fault! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 31, 2009 Share #72 Posted August 31, 2009 Frank, I'm intrigued to know what your thought processes were which lead you to choose that name, BigSplash? I'm sure other members here will come up with alternative names for you. However, since I have resolved not to be nasty to anyone any more, my choices will remain a closely guarded secret. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 31, 2009 Share #73 Posted August 31, 2009 Well, he does have a boat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 31, 2009 Share #74 Posted August 31, 2009 Frank, I'm intrigued to know what your thought processes were which lead you to choose that name, BigSplash? Homage to Robert Maxwell? He had a yacht and made something of a big splash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 31, 2009 Share #75 Posted August 31, 2009 Well, he does have a boat. Jaapv well done you have guessed it......Yes it is the name of my yacht, and when I jump overboard I am told the result is a Big Splash ....hence the name was chosen. I am sure that many of you have some excellent alternative names that are super descriptive and flattering. .Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted August 31, 2009 Share #76 Posted August 31, 2009 <snip> I am sure that many of you have some excellent alternative names that are super descriptive and flattering. .Thanks Hardly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 31, 2009 Share #77 Posted August 31, 2009 Continuing the sailing analogy (sort of), WindBag comes to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 31, 2009 Share #78 Posted August 31, 2009 Continuing the sailing analogy (sort of), WindBag comes to mind. ....a Force 9 gale warning perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted August 31, 2009 Share #79 Posted August 31, 2009 Big Splash? My first association was a soap bubble... Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 31, 2009 Share #80 Posted August 31, 2009 Big Splash? My first association was a soap bubble... I was thinking about that imaginary Captain Pugwash character "Seaman Staines", then again, "Big Splash"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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