Guest Posto 6 Posted August 28, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) One of the trademarks of Leica under Leitz had been their willingness to embrace and lead innovation in the photographic marketplace. Over the past couple of decades, it would appear that this has been replaced by a desire to a preserve market share based on nostalgia and "prestige", rather than technical merit. Can Leica rise to the occasion, as they did in the Depression with their original models, or are they destined to slowly fade into irrelevance, at least from a commercial and technicel point of view? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Hi Guest Posto 6, Take a look here [B]Are Leica still capable of serious inovation?[/B]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
SJP Posted August 28, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 28, 2009 Pile of excrement. The Leica M lenses are still the standard to which all other lenses are measured. The lenses for the S2 look (on paper) substantially better than the best Leica M-lens which is the lux 50 ASPH. This is nothing short of incredible, as is the price of the S system. But who cares if they deliver the goods??? The only difference is that in former times photography was an expensive hobby for the few and now everyone can afford it (at the entrance level). So the high-end stuff looks expensive. Such is life. I doubt if Leica is losing sleep over that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 28, 2009 Share #3 Posted August 28, 2009 One of the trademarks of Leica under Leitz had been their willingness to embrace and lead innovation in the photographic marketplace. Over the past couple of decades, it would appear that this has been replaced by a desire to a preserve market share based on nostalgia and "prestige", rather than technical merit. Can Leica rise to the occasion, as they did in the Depression with their original models, or are they destined to slowly fade into irrelevance, at least from a commercial and technicel point of view? Leitz embracing and leading innovation in the photographic marketplace? Apart from Gandolfi it's hard to name a less innovative, forward thinking or market-leading company. I'll give you the Noctilux f/1.2, but almost everything else has been refinement of existing designs (the M3 is a partial exception) or playing catch-up with the actual market-leaders. I suppose I should add that this doesn't mean I think the cameras or lenses are junk. In their field there are none better ... but Leitz wasn't ahead of the marketplace except in terms of craftsmanship and quality. Slopes off to don asbestos suit;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 28, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 28, 2009 Depends how you define "lead innovation" but: - The M8's sensor with microlenses to counter vignetting. Sure, Kodak produced the sensor but Leica was the innovator afaik. - The only 21 f/1.4 lens ever made. - The S2 system - The M8.2's delayed shutter cock - The S1 - The Digilux 2 (in partnership with Panasonic) - The DM-R - The 6 bit lens coding system Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 29, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 29, 2009 I have no doubt at all the S2 is going to blow us away with its quality. I just wish my photographic abilties were up to using one. As for the M8, Leica has learned a huge amount over the past 4 years and I fully expect the next M camera will move the game on significantly. There's no point Leica trying to compete with Nikon and Canon, they can't do it, how could they? They inovate in a different space and I'm pleased they do. The new Noctilux is a rare beast but as a work of optical engineering, it is peerless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted August 29, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 29, 2009 Leica's innovation record has been mixed throughout its history. As has been noted time and time again, there were quite a few attempts at a camera shooting stills on 35mm movie film in the 1920's - Leica was the brand that survived the shakeout. Leica was mostly chasing Zeiss in lens designs in the 30's - buying the Xenar design from Schneider to counter the Sonnar 50 f/1.5. Exa beat Leica to a 35mm SLR by 30 years, Zeiss beat them by 15, Pentax by 10, Nikon and Canon by 4-5. OTOH, when the M3 was released, the Zeiss chairman shook the hand of whichever Leitz was still in charge then and said "You win!" Leitz Canada did stuff for the military in the 60's-70's that still is not full revealed (I just saw a 66mm f/2 "Elcan" lens at Photo Arsenal - I'd never heard of that one before - sold for Eu13,999). Leica was behind from the beginning in building an SLR system (Polaroid backs? Sports finders? 5-10fps motors?) but produced some of the best SLR lenses, period (280 f/4 APO, 180 Summicron, 90 APO-Summicron - or even the 1968 400 f/6.8 that outperformed the then-current Nikkors with just two pieces of glass) To Peter's list I'd add the Correfot auto-focus system of the 70's. But Leica's innovation has tended to be off the mainstream, which in this day and age is mostly silicon and firmware. They also tend to try and maintain continuity - so their innovation is not throwing out the old and replacing it with something new, but coming up with a solution that works with the old as well as the new. (Compare metering with (or even mounting) a 1982 Canon or Nikkor lens on their 2006 SLRs to metering with a 1982 Leica lens on the M8). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 29, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 29, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) (Compare metering with (or even mounting) a 1982 Canon or Nikkor lens on their 2006 SLRs to metering with a 1982 Leica lens on the M8). On a pedantic note, a post-1977 Nikkor would have had AI meter coupling and can be mounted on any 2006 Nikon SLR. Centre-weighted or spot metering was and is possible at full aperture on all except the low-end digital bodies, and matrix metering on some. Incompatibility tends to go the other way: current "G" lenses with no aperture ring aren't usable on older bodies. All credit to Leitz/Leica for maintaining lens mount compatibility on the M series - but their record with the R is very much less impressive, starting with the decision to sell the original Leicaflex and its lenses with a coupling mechanism that could not support full-aperture TTL metering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 29, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 29, 2009 One of the trademarks of Leica under Leitz had been their willingness to embrace and lead innovation in the photographic marketplace. Over the past couple of decades, it would appear that this has been replaced by a desire to a preserve market share based on nostalgia and "prestige", rather than technical merit. Can Leica rise to the occasion, as they did in the Depression with their original models, or are they destined to slowly fade into irrelevance, at least from a commercial and technicel point of view? I believe that Leica remains very innovative as some examples prove: > Noctilux (the original one, then the revised one and now the latest one recently released)..No competitor exists. > M8 ....I would say that this embraces microcoded software, innovative exposure measurement, a sensor with its micro prisms (effectively co developed with Kodak), to identify a few items > S2....pages of innovation as noted in LFI > Aspherical lenses .....Leica seem to have developed a full range of advanced spec. optics which are world class. Furthermore they have evolved towards automated machining of these items rather the original labour intensive manual grinding and polishing. > New lens coatings avoiding blooming and externally resistant to moisture (ie spray) Leica does NOT have the resources available to Canon to develop Semiconductor chips, driven by a major division making printers, however Leica has overcome this. The SC industry has moved on and innovative companies no longer need to have a wafer fab, or develop SC processes in house.... Leica should be credited in my view for executing a strategy of designing in house (hardware and software) and then using partners to add their (Leica and Partner) intellectual property and manufacturing the various items. They are doing this with Kodak (sensors), Fujitsu (graphics chips) , Phase One (software), Copal (shutter) and Panasonic to name a few. I guess that the days of being the first with a bayonet lens mount, or TTL, or SLR, or Digital technology have largely gone. Todays innovation is focussed on improvement and product engineering and this is where Leica has and should (see above examples) focus the very innovative brains that the company certainly has. An exception maybe next generation of AF, and EVF / Liveview which at some point may displace mirror housing technology. Leica seem to be an innovator here and it could be a point of inflexion on the technology eveloution curve that Leica could capitalise on. I personally hope so. To my mind they have done this within the constraints they have and hopefully business succes with their lenses, M9, S2 etc will allow them to move into a new paradigm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted August 29, 2009 Share #9 Posted August 29, 2009 One of the trademarks of Leica under Leitz had been their willingness to embrace and lead innovation in the photographic marketplace. Over the past couple of decades, it would appear that this has been replaced by a desire to a preserve market share based on nostalgia and "prestige", rather than technical merit. Can Leica rise to the occasion, as they did in the Depression with their original models, or are they destined to slowly fade into irrelevance, at least from a commercial and technicel point of view? Hang about, I read about the incredibly expensive but groundbreaking S2 and the series of lenses to go with. They dropped the R range which I would say was a very positive decision. And I also think there is another M film camera in there somewhere. I also think it is very wise to endeavour to preserve market share as this guarantees jobs for those in the factory because whatever we think they will priorities in looking after thier own as any level headed manufacturer would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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