markowich Posted November 17, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) leica solms just told me that there will be a new sensor for the M8. this info was given to me in a phone conversation with a service rep (leica kundendienst). he sounded convinced of what he said, mentioning that this info came from their 'Qualitaetsicherungsabteilung' (quality control deprtment). already sold cameras have to be sent in to change the sensor. maybe somebody else could call leica to verify.... peter Edit by Mod starwatcher (Klaus): this original assumption has been proven incorrect. A new thread has been opened correcting the statement. Please refer to http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/9604-call-leica-headquarters-concerning-fixes.html This thread is closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Hi markowich, Take a look here info from leica: new sensor . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
itn Posted November 17, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 17, 2006 Wow...! If it's true, it is a big thing. They are starting to deliver M8's from 22nd November in Japan and as soon as we receive it we have to return it to Solms. Ummmh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 17, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 17, 2006 Hi Markowich, ohmygod. And still this is good news, because it shows that Leica are taking the matter seriously. When deliveries commence again with the new sensor and the new firmware, I will likely re-activate my dormant order for an M8. Still, there are questions I would like to see answered. What will the 'colour success rate' be under normal natural-light conditions, without a filter? Will it largely be under incandescent ligting that a cut filter is needed? As for the fearsome 'red eye of Mordor' effect, that's another point for a lens shade! The moderately hopeful old man from the Age of Flashpowder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted November 17, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 17, 2006 Let's hope (pray) this is true and not just an unstantiated rumour. Keep your fingers crossed! - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 17, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 17, 2006 What will the 'colour success rate' be under normal natural-light conditions, without a filter? It will be good except a color cast on some materials, mainly synthetic filters. If the new sensor rumours proves true, this is indeed good news. But this is surprising as Leica was still talking about filters 2 days ago. With luck, this will be just a temporary solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted November 17, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 17, 2006 Leica will come out end of next week with an official statement on a solution for the M8 problems. That is what Stefan Daniel (Leica Product Management), already posted here last week and that is still the message he gave me yesterday. IMO all other - premature - info from "some" sources should be considered as humbug or should be confirmed by Leica. Michiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 17, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting. I do wonder what is meant by "new sensor" - because sometimes people refer to the whole package of sensor plus the overlying filtration/microlenses/cover glass as the "sensor" - whereas I think of the sensor as being just the silicon part, and the filtration being, well, the filtration. I'd be surprised if Leica is really starting from scratch with new silicon - but I could see them repackaging the Kodak 10500 sensor under stronger IR filtration via one of the methods already covered here in our posts: adding an interference coating, or adding more IR absorption dye to the 0.5mm glass cover plate. I'll also be interested in the time-frame for sending in cameras already purchased. I'm just getting mine (I hope), and my shooting style is such that the problems are not much of a factor for me (not that they are not real, and severe in many settings for many others). I hope I'd be able to shoot for a month or two to get some projects out of the way, and then relinquish my camera for upgrade (if that turns out to be the case) during the dark winter months. Monday should be the announcement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyeping Posted November 17, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 17, 2006 let's keep pur fingers crossed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share #9 Posted November 17, 2006 It will be good except a color cast on some materials, mainly synthetic filters. If the new sensor rumours proves true, this is indeed good news. But this is surprising as Leica was still talking about filters 2 days ago. With luck, this will be just a temporary solution. i myself consider it still a rumor...service reps are not always very knowledgable. when i asked about IR issues (do i still the filter after the sensor exchange?) he was out of his bounds and said (unconvincingly): just send it in.... that is why i said that somebody else should call leica and bug them about this issue. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 17, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 17, 2006 Perhaps a new sensor is only to fix the banding in early models.... and the IR sensitivity stays the same .... I do not believe a new sensor will handle IR sensitivity different, especialy not considering the official Leica answer to Popphoto ........if it is true they are in desparate need of a new PR department. I guess best waite for something really official! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share #11 Posted November 17, 2006 Interesting. I do wonder what is meant by "new sensor" - because sometimes people refer to the whole package of sensor plus the overlying filtration/microlenses/cover glass as the "sensor" - whereas I think of the sensor as being just the silicon part, and the filtration being, well, the filtration. I'd be surprised if Leica is really starting from scratch with new silicon - but I could see them repackaging the Kodak 10500 sensor under stronger IR filtration via one of the methods already covered here in our posts: adding an interference coating, or adding more IR absorption dye to the 0.5mm glass cover plate. I'll also be interested in the time-frame for sending in cameras already purchased. . i agree with this point. 'new sensor' could also mean 'new glass covering'.... he insisted on 10 days return time max. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sievers Posted November 17, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 17, 2006 I asked a HK dealer about the M8 today and she said Leica had ordered all stock to be returned to factory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 17, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 17, 2006 Great news for the M8??? not sure yet Great news for this forum??? sure as we can all, once again, speculate on unofficial statements I can already feel 2 or 3 news threads coming soon. Thread 1: what do you think about the new sensor we don't know about yet? Thread 2: let's unite against Leica in case they do not pay my petrol to travel back to my dealer and handle back my M8 Thread 3: let's unite against Kodak for delivering a sensor that did not meet Leica's quality level. We always knew Leica would not let us down so it is Kodak's fault. Maybe Thread 4:... Canon would have never done that to their faithful customers and maybe Thread 5: just in case we still need filters... sorry I was going to forget Thread 6: I do not want a refurbish M8, I want it brand new with new sensor not my original faulty with a fix.... at least this one is a fair one hahahahahha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 17, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 17, 2006 You forgot Thread 7: "I bought the M8 because it has IR picture capabilities and now Leica is taking that away from me". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share #15 Posted November 17, 2006 Great news for the M8??? not sure yet Great news for this forum??? sure as we can all, once again, speculate on unofficial statements I can already feel 2 or 3 news threads coming soon. Thread 1: what do you think about the new sensor we don't know about yet? Thread 2: let's unite against Leica in case they do not pay my petrol to travel back to my dealer and handle back my M8 Thread 3: let's unite against Kodak for delivering a sensor that did not meet Leica's quality level. We always knew Leica would not let us down so it is Kodak's fault. Maybe Thread 4:... Canon would have never done that to their faithful customers and maybe Thread 5: just in case we still need filters... sorry I was going to forget Thread 6: I do not want a refurbish M8, I want it brand new with new sensor not my original faulty with a fix.... at least this one is a fair one hahahahahha i cannot really laugh about all this since i have to decide today (and not monday) on whether to return the M8 to the dealer for the refund or keep it. maybe others are in the same situation. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted November 17, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 17, 2006 egibaud - you are very boring. You are trivialising an important issue which concerns a lot of people, and after attacking the critics for repeating themselves, you seem to be on a crusade to spam every possible thread with your incessant snide attacks. Stop your incessant whining about the whiners - no-one needs it. Grow up and get a life. Incidentally, regarding the supposed 'replacement' sensor - i'm dubious that Leica/Kodak or anyone else could turn around a 'new' sensor in a couple weeks. Debating the pros and cons of any replacement is obviously impossible until we see the result. In any case, i find the idea interesting - especially regarding the fact that it's often been stated that it would be impossible to make tthe M8 sensor 'upgradeable' - a situation that a lot of users would think was a great positive feature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 17, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 17, 2006 i cannot really laugh about all this since i have to decide today (and not monday) on whether to return the M8 to the dealer for the refund or keep it. maybe others are in the same situation.peter Peter, I think you would kick yourself on Monday if you returned it today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share #18 Posted November 17, 2006 Peter, I think you would kick yourself on Monday if you returned it today. could be...but with an investment of euro 10.000.- plus some (with lenses) it is a hard decision. in fact, i can live (unhappily but sort of..) with the IR issue (filters and C1 curves can take care of it, i also got used to handle the color shifts my P45 back produces) but the banding is TOTALLY unaceptable to me. i am still in an oscillatory decision mode. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted November 17, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 17, 2006 Banding will be fixed. Buy your M8 or at least wait till next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted November 17, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 17, 2006 i cannot really laugh about all this since i have to decide today (and not monday) on whether to return the M8 to the dealer for the refund or keep it. maybe others are in the same situation.peter Well, if I were you, I would return my M8 now, and when Leica issues the new M8 with new sensor, then I'll order one of theses new M8. It can surely delay your purshase a few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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