Whose Buying???

[R10dreamer]

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He said that tools help to separate competing photographers (besides style). He's totally right...and you just misinterpreted him

 

I wondered how long it would take for some of the self-proclaimed photo thought police to start hassling him...didn't take long did it?

 

No, what he said was exactly what I quoted. And why is it that you tend to always put digs into people? Are you capable of having a discussion based on fact? I quoted him. His words. Not interpreted words. And if you don't think content is more important than technical skills I would have to disagree with you. However, I am a sharp freak and agree that the technical side is important but I have never seen a great shot of a test chart.

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[Gentleman Villain]

BTW Jean Cristophe...welcome to the forum. You're exactly right that one of the best reasons to consider an S2 is to simply have access to a tool that is a bit different than the tools of the direct competition.

 

 

 

 

Then the only difference you can make is the tools you use, and if the S2 is as good as one expects, then this will benefit you position slightly (obviously style does to).

 

 

This is for R10 dreamer

 

See? He says it right there....tools will benefit position when competing against other photographers...then acknowledges style does too

 

So why are you condescending him already r10dreamer? Why not just say welcome

 

.

[Jean Cristophe]

Gentleman Villain, thanks for the clarification and for the welcome.

 

I am perfectly aware of what goes on in various forums, I read most of them, however participate in none (well one or two and scarcely at that) for reason like this.

 

I thank you for taking the trouble to clarify, I wouldn't of bothered for it's just a case of continuously feeding the "never satisfied" ...

 

As for the S2 it is the first camera in years I am actually exited about hence my participating in this forum, looking for pointers, information and even rumors will do.

 

I had the chance to hold one .... just hold sadly enough, but just being able to hold it, the touch, feel and impressions from that are enough to get one going. Now all we need to wait for is the IQ and as I mentioned earlier, all leica cameras I have used over the past 30 years or so, ugly, beautifull, overpriced etc. have made one big impact on me, and thats the IQ

[sketchyhead]

2, I will not be buying at these prices.

 

Spending that kind of money would mean the said purchaser would either have to be a seriously successful 'name' photographer with a growing list of prestigious international clients willing to part with shed-loads of money for the telephone number day rate. Or, an extremely rich individual who simply enjoys camera polishing and being spotted with the most expensive piece of photographic kit on God's earth.

 

I'm neither.

 

Paul

[thpeters]

I believe many members ask for that in formation:

 

For that high price around $ 30000 Candian dollar,has that tool S2 an AUTOMATIC DUST REMOVER???

 

Sofar I can not find the answer to that.

 

Maybe other members know it, thanks in advance if there is a response to this.

 

Theo

[R10dreamer]

2, I will not be buying at these prices.

 

Spending that kind of money would mean the said purchaser would either have to be a seriously successful 'name' photographer with a growing list of prestigious international clients willing to part with shed-loads of money for the telephone number day rate. Or, an extremely rich individual who simply enjoys camera polishing and being spotted with the most expensive piece of photographic kit on God's earth.

 

I'm neither.

 

Paul

 

Or maybe they just want one. There are a lot of different reasons for people to buy anything. Never just two. Being able to afford something has generally had nothing to do with purchasing something. They don't spend all those marketing/advertising dollars for no reason.

[wildlightphoto]

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Spending that kind of money would mean the said purchaser would either have to be a seriously successful 'name' photographer with a growing list of prestigious international clients willing to part with shed-loads of money for the telephone number day rate. Or, an extremely rich individual who simply enjoys camera polishing and being spotted with the most expensive piece of photographic kit on God's earth.

 

I'm willing to bet that there are more reasons to choose (or not) an S2 than these two.

[paulmoore]

2, I will not be buying at these prices.

 

Spending that kind of money would mean the said purchaser would either have to be a seriously successful 'name' photographer with a growing list of prestigious international clients willing to part with shed-loads of money for the telephone number day rate. Or, an extremely rich individual who simply enjoys camera polishing and being spotted with the most expensive piece of photographic kit on God's earth.

 

I'm neither.

 

Paul

 

I am considering this camera to buy and I sadly I don't fall into your two boxes..it would be nice to just go out to the shed and withdraw some stacks of cash.

I have worked 25+ years in my profession and if I can swing it buy into it.. I will based on a combination of needs and wants..and why not?! if I have to shoot some butt ugly thing that somebody thinks joe-consumer needs then why not enjoy the process..and when shooting for myself, as that was the it purpose of pursuing photography, when not shoot with something that you really enjoy, that is the point isn't it? fulfillment of desire? or do we need to suffer here on god's earth and toil with less? Work is too much work with equipment I don't really care about..work is more alive when I am working with something that gives me pleasure.. I realize and accept that most pleasures in life have a heiger price tag..

[lxlim]

I am considering this camera to buy and I sadly I don't fall into your two boxes..it would be nice to just go out to the shed and withdraw some stacks of cash.

I have worked 25+ years in my profession and if I can swing it buy into it.. I will based on a combination of needs and wants..and why not?! if I have to shoot some butt ugly thing that somebody thinks joe-consumer needs then why not enjoy the process..and when shooting for myself, as that was the it purpose of pursuing photography, when not shoot with something that you really enjoy, that is the point isn't it? fulfillment of desire? or do we need to suffer here on god's earth and toil with less? Work is too much work with equipment I don't really care about..work is more alive when I am working with something that gives me pleasure.. I realize and accept that most pleasures in life have a heiger price tag..

 

I agree with your sentiments. Specs sheet do not really make the final decision for me.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I agree and I always buy what I need first but you know you always want something nice to work with too. Hell if you have to do something all day long it is nice to get some pleasure from working with it as well. Let's face it we are gear sluts too. LOL

It certainly has sex appeal.

[jackal]

leica pushing the mantlepiece camera ethos with their pricing then, or maybe the limited rental market

 

Surely only a complete emotionally-based 'leicaphile' would buy one over a much more established Hasselblad (for half or even third of the price) or an EOS-1DS/D3X at a quarter of the price which offers 99.9% of the quality but about 1000& more functionalty and versatility.

 

With the intial launch statement of 16,00 Euros I thought we might see a UK price of around 13,000 GBP (which would still be too expensive in the current climate and given the competition) but it looks as though 20,000 GBP will be the approximate final cost which is bordering on the ridiculous in my opinion.

[carstenw]

The Canons and Nikons aren't even playing the same game, so forget those.

 

The Hasselblad is a nice system, but it is not a Leica, nor anything to compare with the old Hasselblads (judged by the standards of the time, not of today). Plastic covers on steel body on metal frame, most lenses are good, but not all, copy variation, that fantastically colour-blind cream-on-brown design that only a mother could love, loud, heavy vibratory shutter, no focal plane shutter, rigid handgrip not well suited for using the waist-level finder, and so on. Nice system, good quality, but there is room for Leica here.

 

Hasselblad also has a tendency to piss off their customers. Moving from the open H2 to the closed H3D with no warning to their customers, who tended to use Phase backs, declaring the 36x48mm sensor size to be "full frame", releasing two HCD lenses for it labelled with *equivalent* focal lengths rather than real ones, and then adding a new back with a sensor too large for those lenses' image circle, selling the H3DII-50 as being "live video" (http://www.hasselblad.com/media/1342809/uk_h3dii50_datasheet.pdf), and then never delivering, frustrating people who bought it for that feature...

 

It is still the nicest system in MF, but I expect that to change by the time the S2 gets up to speed. Some people are already switching, due to frustrations with existing systems. I wouldn't go that far, but I see where they are coming from. The existing companies all have warts.

[ptomsu]

The Canons and Nikons aren't even playing the same game, so forget those.

 

The Hasselblad is a nice system, but it is not a Leica, nor anything to compare with the old Hasselblads (judged by the standards of the time, not of today). Plastic covers on steel body on metal frame, most lenses are good, but not all, copy variation, that fantastically colour-blind cream-on-brown design that only a mother could love, loud, heavy vibratory shutter, no focal plane shutter, rigid handgrip not well suited for using the waist-level finder, and so on. Nice system, good quality, but there is room for Leica here.

 

Hasselblad also has a tendency to piss off their customers. Moving from the open H2 to the closed H3D with no warning to their customers, who tended to use Phase backs, declaring the 36x48mm sensor size to be "full frame", releasing two HCD lenses for it labelled with *equivalent* focal lengths rather than real ones, and then adding a new back with a sensor too large for those lenses' image circle, selling the H3DII-50 as being "live video" (http://www.hasselblad.com/media/1342809/uk_h3dii50_datasheet.pdf), and then never delivering, frustrating people who bought it for that feature...

 

It is still the nicest system in MF, but I expect that to change by the time the S2 gets up to speed. Some people are already switching, due to frustrations with existing systems. I wouldn't go that far, but I see where they are coming from. The existing companies all have warts.

 

Carsten

 

I am surprised on your "enthusiastic" comments about the H system!

 

Well I must say, I am very much with you WRT what this system is today and what it misses or which sins have been done by Hasselblad over the last years with that system!

 

For me the biggest sins are:

 

1) closed to Phase backs from H3D

 

2) FF definition for their HCD glass - this is really the biggest nightmare one could do

 

3) ergonomic design of the camera - especially the controls - I have never seen something worse! And what is even worse that that is that Hasselblad is even proud of these control buttons which a normal grown male can only hardly touch and operate - at least I have my problems!

 

Having said that, it is the overall best system out today and times have obviously changed over the past 2 decades WRT the definition what is high and robust quality

 

Expecting much improvements from the S System as well here, although I am still curious about the follow up strategy for future cameras from Leica.

[simonjegleave@mac.com]

I expect to buy.

 

Expect being reliant on reviews of the product and it really meeting our expectations. I need (really really want) a simple but easy to handle MF camera. I rarely used to use 35mm film but have been using digital Leicas for several years (M8 and R9DMR). I love both of them but miss MF. The S2 looks to me to be the current answer to my requirements, which is mainly landscapes and ruins.

 

Having said that I have recently been using the Sony 900 with Zeiss lenses and to be honest it will take some beating. The Zeiss lenses being very good.

[adan]

Jackal - which Hasselblad did you have in mind that is "half or even third the price" of the S2? The only NEW Hassy speccing close to the S2 is this one:

 

Hasselblad | H3DII-39 SLR Digital Camera Kit with | 70380530

 

And that is more like 4/5ths the price - big difference between 80%, 50% and 33%.

[R10dreamer]

Jackal - which Hasselblad did you have in mind that is "half or even third the price" of the S2? The only NEW Hassy speccing close to the S2 is this one:

 

Hasselblad | H3DII-39 SLR Digital Camera Kit with | 70380530

 

And that is more like 4/5ths the price - big difference between 80%, 50% and 33%.

 

Not when you include the cost of lenses. Then the 1/2 to 2/3rds the cost comes into play.

[adan]

Hi, R10 - the jackal said 1/3rd the price, not 1/3rd less. $8,000 hassy vs. $24,000 Leica - I don't see any such hassy available (maybe a used CFV back).

 

I don't cut people slack when they try to win arguments by faking or exaggerating numbers.

[R10dreamer]

Hi, R10 - the jackal said 1/3rd the price, not 1/3rd less. $8,000 hassy vs. $24,000 Leica - I don't see any such hassy available (maybe a used CFV back).

 

I don't cut people slack when they try to win arguments by faking or exaggerating numbers.

 

I stand corrected. I re-read his post and you are correct.

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[adan]

Thanks - and my best wishes for something for R users as nice as the M9.

[Pituca]

For sure I would love to drive a Ferrari. But when it comes to make money by delivering pizzas, I wouln't use one, not even if I had the money to buy a dozen. So being passionate about the S2 should not be the decisive reason to buy one, as long as it is supposed to be a production tool for business.

 

In 1991 I spent about 92.000 DM (46.000 EUR) on a 16.7 megapix camera by Kodak, which was only capable of taking stills due to exposure times of several minutes. A foolish decision? ROI was within one year, and after another year it turned obsolete due to rapid progress of technology. However it did not only pay off, it opened doors to customers and projects I could not serve before.

 

The S2 seems to have the potential to be more productive than the competition. Those who are not in the appropriate business should not even think about it. So do I, that's why I won't buy it. Those who are should buy soon, since a digital camera is not yet made to remain the cutting edge for too long. Progress is still fast, and unlike conventional Leicas, an outdated digicam system for 20-30k is not something you really want to have.