Ashley Groome Posted July 31, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Who is manufacturing the lenses for the S2? I heard Cosina, I heard Leica - anyone know? Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Hi Ashley Groome, Take a look here S2 Lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
farnz Posted August 1, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 1, 2009 Welcome to the forum, Ashley! AFAIK, only Leica can make lenses for the S2 because the camera hasn't been released yet and it's a new mount. You might like to post this in the S2 sub-forum. (Can someone relocate this thread please, Mods ... ?) Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayoflight Posted August 1, 2009 Share #3 Posted August 1, 2009 I think that Leica is proud of the optical quality they (can) produce. They accepted Minolta's lenses in the 1970s (because they were that good), but today I guess they won't involve anybody else in this, because they don't need to. They have a whole factory to develop and mold glass — besides they buy glass from big companies as well just like others. But, if Cosina made the lenses, the prices would be about 1/4 that of Leica prices, and still the quality would be good enough for MF. Let's look at Zeiss / Voigtlander lenses for example. This is just my opinion. Today everything is possible... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted August 1, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 1, 2009 somebody else posted this thought- rumour whatever about the lenses being made in Japan http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/981852-post189.html Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haribo Posted August 1, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 1, 2009 AFAIK, only Leica can make lenses for the S2 because the camera hasn't been released yet and it's a new mount. Pete. Don't you think if Leica would (don't know if they do) get their lenses produced from a 3rd party that they would of course supply the mounts, specs and such????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 1, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 1, 2009 Don't you think if Leica would (don't know if they do) get their lenses produced from a 3rd party that they would of course supply the mounts, specs and such????? Of course, Harald, but the question was "Who is manufacturing the lenses for the S2?" not "Who is manufacturing the lenses for Leica for the S2"? so it sounded to me like the OP was asking about 3rd party lenses for the S2. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Groome Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted August 1, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, they do need to - the Leica camera division has been on life support for some time now - the S2 will represent the absolute top of the range and if they get it wrong with insane pricing etc - it might very well be the last nail in the coffin. The reason I asked about the lenses (before I shell out more than 20 grand) is because I don't want to pay Leica prices for a 3rd party lens. I don't mind if they are made by Cosina, as long as they work properly and they are priced accordingly. Are the lenses for the S2 made by Leica or someone else? Best Regards. Ashley Groome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted August 1, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 1, 2009 Are the lenses for the S2 made by Leica or someone else? If the quality is there the maker is irrelevant. Quality costs no matter who makes it. And as far as I know the S lenses are made by Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted August 1, 2009 Share #9 Posted August 1, 2009 Yes, they do need to - the Leica camera division has been on life support for some time now - the S2 will represent the absolute top of the range and if they get it wrong with insane pricing etc - it might very well be the last nail in the coffin. The reason I asked about the lenses (before I shell out more than 20 grand) is because I don't want to pay Leica prices for a 3rd party lens. I don't mind if they are made by Cosina, as long as they work properly and they are priced accordingly. Are the lenses for the S2 made by Leica or someone else? Best Regards. Ashley Groome. The lenses are made by Leica in Solms. All of their lenses for system cameras (M &S) are made in Solms. Lens barrels, mounts, and other fine machine work are made by sister company Weller Feinwerktechnik GmbH, located in their new facility at Leitzpark in Wetzlar (the future home of the new Leica factory). The Leica factory in Solms focuses entirely on glass grinding, polishing, and coating, as well as final assembly and testing. Weller is owned wholly by ACM, Andreas Kaufmann's holding company. Leica has never contracted with Cosina on any lens manufacture. Hope this answers your question. If in doubt, I recommend anyone who can to take a factory tour. It is quite astounding what goes into making a single Leica lens. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 2, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 2, 2009 Exactly as David said. you can even physically look at the dedicated facility for S2 lenses when you take the tour. Incidently they will now remain in their current facility until 2012. The lenses are made by Leica in Solms. All of their lenses for system cameras (M &S) are made in Solms. Lens barrels, mounts, and other fine machine work are made by sister company Weller Feinwerktechnik GmbH, located in their new facility at Leitzpark in Wetzlar (the future home of the new Leica factory). The Leica factory in Solms focuses entirely on glass grinding, polishing, and coating, as well as final assembly and testing. Weller is owned wholly by ACM, Andreas Kaufmann's holding company. Leica has never contracted with Cosina on any lens manufacture. Hope this answers your question. If in doubt, I recommend anyone who can to take a factory tour. It is quite astounding what goes into making a single Leica lens. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 2, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 2, 2009 I think it is fair to assume that the lenses will be optically superb though as seen on their M lenses, not necessarily perfect and repair times may be long, if history is any indicator. However, whether they auto focus quickly and accurately may be another story as this depends on electronics, an area where Leica has been very weak and firmware development times have been excessive and not always well executed. (My opinion as an expert in software development based on my experience with the M8.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumu Posted August 2, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 2, 2009 during the last 12 month, Leica has pushed up their competence in electronics and digital developement. i am shure, they will manage the bussiness als well. Yes, Leica is the only factory where the S2-Lenses are made an will be made in future. No third company is involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 2, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 2, 2009 "during the last 12 month, Leica has pushed up their competence in electronics and digital development" The proof remains to be seen. It hasn't materialized in the M8/M8.2 and bringing a team from one hardware and software development platform to another is not easy and rarely bug free. The M8 used discreet components with their own set of software development tools. The S2 uses larger scale integrated electronics and a completely different set of software development tools. The first 6 months are usually spent learning the new tools, the next 6 months produces code that desperately needs re-factoring and debugging. If the tools are new too, then it is even more complex as there are often bugs in the tools themselves and sometimes finding whether the bug is in your code or in the tool can be quite challenging. Bringing out new relatively bug free software under such circumstances in 12 months..very unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 2, 2009 Share #14 Posted August 2, 2009 Firmware, electronics design and assembly was done by Jenoptik for M8 and Imacon for the DMR - as far as I know the V2-firmware of the M8 is the first made by Leice (since S1?). "But, if Cosina made the lenses, the prices would be about 1/4 that of Leica prices, and still the quality would be good enough for MF. Let's look at Zeiss / Voigtlander lenses for example. This is just my opinion. Today everything is possible..." And just like the Zeiss-branded Cosina-lenses inferior to real Zeiss-lenses. There are barely any optical designs in MF as complex as the S-lenses, there is just one asphericl design from Fuji and it costs 7k$! Let Cosina manufacture a 70mm Summarit with same optical/mechanical quality, aspherics, floating elements, full-metal gears and custom designed motors - then we can compare prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobh Posted August 2, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 2, 2009 Leica has never contracted with Cosina on any lens manufacture. David Well, this may be true but Leica has contracted Japanese zoom optics and sold them as Leica R-Vario-xxx. They claimed that their imposed quality control would ensure they would get the cream of the crop, but I remember an (old) test article (by Erwin Puts I believe) that did not support that statement. So the original question was justified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Groome Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted August 2, 2009 I am very grateful to all those kind people who posted a reply to my question about who makes the lenses for the S2. I feel confident that they are in fact made by Leica. Again, many thanks. Ashley Groome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 2, 2009 Share #17 Posted August 2, 2009 Firmware, electronics design and assembly was done by Jenoptik for M8 and Imacon for the DMR - as far as I know the V2-firmware of the M8 is the first made by Leice (since S1?).The present version 2 firmware is fine, the original one had a few bugs that required in camera format to keep the numbering. A bug free program of any complexity does not exist. It always requires some fixes to iron out most of the faults. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 2, 2009 Share #18 Posted August 2, 2009 ...firmware development times have been excessive and not always well executed. (My opinion as an expert in software development based on my experience with the M8.) Without knowing what was involved in the firmware modifications I don't think it's possible to comment on whether the development times have been excessive. If all that was required was minor tweaks to the code, then I agree that the times have been long, on the other hand it may have involved a fundamental redesign and rewrite from scratch, in which case the times have been reasonable IMHO. I seem to remember that the AWB code was totally rewritten, not I imagine an easy thing to do. Since you have been involved in software development - as I have for the last thirty years - you'll know that what the user sees quite often gives no indication of the complexity of what has changed 'under the covers'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 2, 2009 Share #19 Posted August 2, 2009 Steve, While I don't disagree with your statement in general, my opinion stands based on my experience with the M8 and my observations since with threads showing that a few serious bugs still plague them. I was aware that Jenoptik was the original firmware developer and that Leica took over the development. I also remember how long it took them to come up to speed and offer their first update. Whether they rewrote the AWB code or merely made corrections to the parameters used in the algorithms is not publicly known but I seriously doubt that they rewrote the code completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 2, 2009 Share #20 Posted August 2, 2009 Whether they rewrote the AWB code or merely made corrections to the parameters used in the algorithms is not publicly known but I seriously doubt that they rewrote the code completely. Given that the M8’s original “AWB” was basically just switching between daylight and tungsten settings, there was nothing worthwhile in the original code to preserve. There is no doubt that the AWB code was rewritten from scratch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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