Canon -> Leica

[Steve Pope]

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Your current Canon lens line up, plus your own commentary, indicate a strong preference for wide-angle shooting. With that in mind, you maybe need to reconsider your proposed selection of lenses for the M8, because you're moving quite a long way from that...possibly inadvertently. Until there's a full-frame digital M on the market, you're not exactly spoilt for choice where wide angle is concerned for the M8, but you should at least investigate the 15mm from Cosina-Voigtlander, plus consider the merits of one of Leica's 18mm, 21mm or 24mm offerings.

 

People don't often dwell on this slight weakness in the M8 (cumbersome tele and macro performance is more usually cited) but there are certain inconveniences in choosing this camera for predominately wide-angle work - bulky, slowish lenses that block the viewfinder and require add-on accesories being the main one.

[wem]

Your current Canon lens line up, plus your own commentary, indicate a strong preference for wide-angle shooting. With that in mind, you maybe need to reconsider your proposed selection of lenses for the M8, because you're moving quite a long way from that...possibly inadvertently. Until there's a full-frame digital M on the market, you're not exactly spoilt for choice where wide angle is concerned for the M8, but you should at least investigate the 15mm from Cosina-Voigtlander, plus consider the merits of one of Leica's 18mm, 21mm or 24mm offerings.

 

Thanks for your comment! I have been looking into that. That lens (15mm) is one of the reasons why I cannot say never to buy a lens again.

 

I use the 24mm a lot. But I crop a lot too. So I guess 35mm is better suited for 10 MP, where the 24mm was more flexible on 21 MP.

[delander †]

 

In terms of IQ, do you think the m8 is any less than your 1Ds3? And to what extent? Only in terms of pixelcount?

 

Thank you for your response!

 

My normal print size for the M8/1ds3 is A3+ and I have just started printing A2 with the M8/Epson 3800. I prefer the colour from the M8 and use Capture One as the RAW processor. I just shoot RAW. There is even cropping space in the M8 files for printing A3+. Theoretically one can crop a lot from the Canon 21MP files but when I do that it just does not have the look of the M8, difficult to quantify. If you are happy to lose AF, zoom, sophisticated metering, flash and a myriad of other settings then the M8 is a revelation.

 

Some Canon lenses give Leica type quality, I'm thinking of the latest 70-200 F4 IS L and the 300F2.8 IS L. As others have said to abandon all your DSLR stuff might turn out to be the wrong decision, not from an IQ POV but from a usage POV.

 

Jeff

[noah_addis]

Figuring in the crop factor, I'd go for a 24mm on the wide end, since it's the widest you can go without an external finder.

 

And for your 50, you might consider a used 50 'Lux Pre-Asph. It's a great older lens with a lot of character wide open.

 

You could even wait on the 90. I'd suggest starting with one or two lenses to make sure you like the camera. Get used to those, then add more if needed.

 

I've used Nikon and Canon but the rangefinder system just works best for me. It's a matter of personal preference of course.

[St Clair]

Been there, done that. I sold all my Canon gear including tilt shift lenses etc. to move to a complete Leica setup. I now have a couple of M8's and lenses similar to what you are thinking about getting. I have been shooting recently with the 50mm Nokton f/1.1 a lot, check out my blog if you want to see some photos of what this combo can do.

[wilfredo]

Been there, done that. I sold all my Canon gear including tilt shift lenses etc. to move to a complete Leica setup. I now have a couple of M8's and lenses similar to what you are thinking about getting. I have been shooting recently with the 50mm Nokton f/1.1 a lot, check out my blog if you want to see some photos of what this combo can do.

 

 

Can you post any Nokton shots here?

[lxlim]

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Hey guys,

 

I am new on this forum and am still a Canon equipment owner. Currently, I own the following equipment:

 

· 5d mark II (February)

· 70-200 F4 IS (September)

· 24-105 F4 IS (September)

· 17-40 F4 (February)

· 85mm F1.2 L II (February)

· 24mm F1.4 L II (March/April)

· 580 EX II (February)

· 2x CF 16 GB high speed

 

I am thinking about moving to a leica m8 with a 28 elmarit, a 50 1.1 nokton and a 90 summarit. What do you guys think about that move in terms of technology and image quality? I am willing to sacrifice some for the benefit of size and portability. I will be selling (or trading) all my Canon stuff for this, so I need to make sure it is what I want ...

 

Thanks for your comments!

 

Wem

 

I think it might well be down to a DSLR vs D Rangefinder way of working. Nothing beats a hands on try out with an M8 to make the final decision.

 

In terms of technology and image, I would say that the M8 can deliver as good as or better than current Nikon and Canon cameras provided you work within its limitations. Take your time. To understand those limitations I culled this forum for 12 months trying to understand the camera. Even then there were little things that trip me up.

 

A couple of things that trip me up were these. My eyesight had issues (astigmatism) with the rangefinder . The other is that the M8 is weighty but not heavy enough for me for low shutter speeds that a 1D series handles easily.

 

If you want to be the type of photographer who can estimate exposure and guestimate distances quickly, the M8 will be the perfect tool for those disciplines. These skills go a long way to offsetting the AF and exposure automation of DSLRs.

 

The other thing is service. In my part of the world, its at least 3 to 4 months turnaround for anything to be done.

 

Other than that its a really enjoyable camera to create pictures but very different from the equipment you are using. Do be cautious in commiting.

[Jeff S]

Wem, keep Hiromu's point about the crop factor in mind, given that you like WA. And, if you go wider than 24mm, you might find that you need an external viewfinder, which will add a level of complexity for someone new to the RF system.

 

Jeff

 

(oops, notice that Noah already made this point...hence, +1)

[jasoniburn]

As someone who is considering the very same thing that you are I have done a great deal of research on the final product (the image) of the M8.

 

I shoot with a 1D MKIII and a whole host of L lenses including a couple that you have and from what I can see then the IQ between both cameras cannot really be compared.

 

I know I am going to get shot down and shouted at for this comment but its an open, all accepting forum so I'm going to share my findings. (M8 owners please bare with me and understand my comments before you attack me). Over the past two days I have looked at thousands of images on his forum from many photographers and my opinions are based those images.

 

From what I can see the Canon takes by far the clearer, sharper, better white balanced and less noisy image. It is the easiest camera to get excellent images from providing the user knows what he is doing i.e. ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed relationship.

 

The M8 is a totally different piece of equipment and takes only a few types of images very well, perhaps better than the canon. It portrays "art" photography very well and if you are out after the noisy moody effect its great. If you play to the cameras foibles then it produces some fantastic images. The average user (which we all basically are) will not get any where near the same obvious quality of image as the Canon can.

 

Its like two very fast cars. The Subaru Imprezza is an easy car to get into and drive very fast within five minutes. It flatters the driver into thinking that he is better than he really is. This is the Canon.

 

The Ferrari F40 is a car that will bite you hard on the backside if you don't know what you are doing but if you really know what you are doing it will reward your expertise. This is the M8.

 

From the thousands of images I have seen over the last few days there are few that I thought wow thats a great well focused image. Many were well composed but most often due to focus issues or DOF issues failed were not that great. These shots would probably not have been missed by the Canon.

 

They are two entirely different types of camera used for two totally different types of photography. The Canon just gets on with the job and will reward the masses. It appears the M8 is the Stradavarius violin which will really only reward the few.

 

OK the touch paper is lit and I'm standing well back. Be gentle.

 

P.S. I am loaning an M8 next week to see how I get on. Can't wait to see if I can make it sing.

[stunsworth]

Over the past two days I have looked at thousands of images on his forum from many photographers and my opinions are based those images.

 

I've never thought you could judge very much based on the small images that are posted here. After saying that you are doing the right thing by hiring an M8 and finding out for yourself. I own a Canon 5D and have had an M8 for two and a half years or so. I've hardly used the Canon in that time, and in fact the Canon is on eBay as I write. You are correct that the Canon - or any other SLR - is a more 'universal' camera, but for those of us whose usage falls within what the M8 excels at it is a wonderful camera, and I for one have enjoyed every moment I've spent with it.

[jasoniburn]

I've never thought you could judge very much based on the small images that are posted here. After saying that you are doing the right thing by hiring an M8 and finding out for yourself. I own a Canon 5D and have had an M8 for two and a half years or so. I've hardly used the Canon in that time, and in fact the Canon is on eBay as I write. You are correct that the Canon - or any other SLR - is a more 'universal' camera, but for those of us whose usage falls within what the M8 excels at it is a wonderful camera, and I for one have enjoyed every moment I've spent with it.

 

Excellent response. Thanks for not attacking me hahahah.

 

It appears to be a camera that rewards the gifted but will make the average look just that.

[Jeff S]

.

 

the Canon takes by far the clearer, sharper, better white balanced and less noisy image.

 

The M8 ...takes only a few types of images very well, portrays "art" photography very well and if you are out after the noisy moody effect its great. If you play to the cameras foibles then it produces some fantastic images. quality of image as the Canon can.

 

 

Only 22 posts, Jason, and you've sure garnered some attention:)

 

I've excerpted some of your post above. If you remove these comments, your post has more merit, IMO. Yes, the instruments are different, and yes, perhaps the Canon (or any high end DSLR) works better at high ISO, macro or using tele lenses. But, if you're a good photographer, then each can create a broad range of at least technically good images. The artistic merit is another discussion. I suggest you do some research on the vast range of images by photographers using M Leicas over the years (film included)...easily found in books and prints...and I think you'll come to your senses. But, it still might not be the right tool for you.

 

Jeff

[SJP]

P.S. I am loaning an M8 next week to see how I get on. Can't wait to see if I can make it sing

 

Don't get overly excited would be my advice. Leica stuff is magic but it grows on you like a decent wine.

 

My initial response to Leica pics from the M8 was, OK.... so...? Then I took another look, and another and it started to creep up on me, slowly but surely. It does not kick you in the n.ts. It is very subtle until you start to recognise the signature.

[Guest srheker]

I will be selling (or trading) all my Canon stuff for this, so I need to make sure it is what I want ...

Wem

 

 

Nobody can tell you what you want. Especially if you don't say what you want to do with the camera.

 

Posting a list of what you have and another list of what you might want to buy is not very helpful to determin, what suits your needs.

 

Maybe it would be more reasonable to talk about what you want to do (or what you already do).

[egibaud]

My experience is use a 5D MKII as you would use an M8. I have both, I only have Canon prime lenses. The only difference aside camera shape and weight is the finder, I love to see what happening outside my image and reframe if necessary, that's the M8. I feel locked into a tunnel, this is the 5D.

 

But let's be honnest, you are more likely to be spot on with the 5D MKII than with the M8. This is what I feel and live on a daily basis. M was the sharpest when we did not check pictures on a 24 inch screen... now it is sometime sharper than DSLR.

 

I love the M8, this is the ideal camera for what I have seen on your flickr but if like me you cannot miss a shot, ie: at a wedding, M8 is not the right choice anymore. It was for me 2 years ago, but not now. Maybe M9 will be.

[911turbojk]

I also have used 5D MARK II at first and then bought a LEICA M8.2 about 2 month ago.

 

It is a totally amazing I must say, though it is only 10mp but the photo quality I get is simply stunning, I think it is a combination of M8.2 & its lens , but I must also say it is the "EXPERIENCE" of Leica that is allowing me to take better photos than before. I love the way M8 operates on your hand, it is light and ergonomic. Unlike the 5D MKII or other SLR it is not bulky , and it doesn't really attract attention. Which allows you to take photos of your subject with less pressure on the subject.

 

I have sold most of my Canon Lens except 24-70, ( 85mm 1.2, 70-200 IS 2.8 are sold)

 

When I look back and comparing my Canon Photos with my new Leica photos , I must say ,, you can't miss it , the LEICA image seems more "AIRY" and "3D" , it is simply LEICA.

 

I hate to say it but after having my M8.2 ,, the ratio of use is 95% M8 , 5% 5D MKII.

Because it simply upgrades the whole photography experience.

 

My suggestion is to keep the 5D MKII and keep one of the zoom lens you like and maybe the 70-200 and sell the rest, and go for a M8.2,, you won't regret it .

 

Jack

[shootinglulu]

I bought my M8 a few months ago, it has taken me a while to adjust to the RF system but now i love this camera, and i've changed from using Av priority to fully manual which greatly adds to the enjoyment of shooting with the M8 .

I think it's worth having the very best optics to go with the M8. Maybe just have one lens for a while, get to know the camera and that lens really well and later be more informed about what your next lens should be, 'praps even better able then to afford the best?

Honestly, if getting the Leica has turned out to be a good thing for me, by the sound of what you say, your going to love it!

Cheers, Lucy

[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped}

From the thousands of images I have seen over the last few days there are few that I thought wow thats a great well focused image. Many were well composed but most often due to focus issues or DOF issues failed were not that great. These shots would probably not have been missed by the Canon.

 

{snipped}

 

P.S. I am loaning an M8 next week to see how I get on. Can't wait to see if I can make it sing.

 

Hey Jason,

 

I don't know what thousand pix you looked at in the last few days but I certainly haven't seen a lot of unintentionally blurry shots posted here or elsewhere with the M8.

 

I shoot weddings. The shots on my web site, blog, and many thousands of others I haven't posted there are all taken with a Canon 1d2, 1ds2, 5d, Leica DMR, M8 or Nikon D3.

 

With the exception of the Nocti and its ilk, most Leica / M8 shots I see are actually very sharp, so I'm truly not sure what you're talking about in your comment above.

 

One of the reasons I switched to Leica from Canon (and to Nikon from Canon) was just how blurry the Canon shots are with their less-than-great wide glass (especially their wide zooms). I can also point you to tons of low light situations where a Canon (or Nikon) has given up focusing but the M8 keeps delivering.

 

As for missing shots with an M8, well, you don't shoot it long much (though there are those, like Andy Piper, that do up to 135mm). But it excels at a normal FOV to a wider FOV (the crop currently kills some of that).

 

You also don't shoot it close...

 

So you put that all together, shooting wider, shooting farther away (and the crop helps here too) and you get a pretty sharp system, actually.

 

That a lot of folks purposely push the blurry, wide-open-aperture thing with their Leica is a matter of taste, not capability, IMO. I use the M8 for a lot of formal portraiture precisely because it's sharper and more detailed than my other "wider" options.

 

BTW--in a week with an M8 you'll find out whether you like rangefinders, not the camera. It takes a good 6 months to a year to understand how to process any digicam coming at the brand fresh like you are. So "singing" may be a little out of the question: you can probably hum a great tune though

[St Clair]

Can you post any Nokton shots here?

 

Wilfredo, I have been posting shots to the people gallery. It's a great lens, especially for the price and I find the weight/size perfect on the M8.

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[offshore]

Hey guys,

 

I am new on this forum and am still a Canon equipment owner. Currently, I own the following equipment:

 

· 5d mark II (February)

· 70-200 F4 IS (September)

· 24-105 F4 IS (September)

· 17-40 F4 (February)

· 85mm F1.2 L II (February)

· 24mm F1.4 L II (March/April)

· 580 EX II (February)

· 2x CF 16 GB high speed

 

I am thinking about moving to a leica m8 with a 28 elmarit, a 50 1.1 nokton and a 90 summarit. What do you guys think about that move in terms of technology and image quality? I am willing to sacrifice some for the benefit of size and portability. I will be selling (or trading) all my Canon stuff for this, so I need to make sure it is what I want ...

 

Thanks for your comments!

 

Wem

Are you a gear head? Pro? Serious amateur? Think your equipment is going to make you a better photographer? Why don't you learn to use what you've got to its full potential because you have some of the best Canon has to offer. If portability is your only issue why did you buy all the Canon stuff to begin with? Rent an M8 with some lenses before you dump all that gear and see what you think first.