Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 7, 2009 Share #421 Posted August 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi there Guy, good to "see" that you! I do a lot for my clients but lifting a car to my eye calls for the super hero photographer.... not I. Hey I'm fairly happy with my Lexus and I do like my wife's BMW . But I use the Jetta to shoot with . Lighter by far To many car things going on here, it's a camera guy's no spinning wheels. The car analogies just don't work and the discrimination against workers that don't reside in Germany is getting really freaking old. Nuf said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here S2 available in October / starting price of £15,996. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest malland Posted August 7, 2009 Share #422 Posted August 7, 2009 I agree with Guy: the consumerism on Porsches exhibited here is inane and the same thing goes for prejudices concerning cultural superiority in rich countries and against workers in developing countries. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Scratching the Surface© Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted August 7, 2009 Share #423 Posted August 7, 2009 I have never seen a politically correct forum. Never. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted August 7, 2009 Share #424 Posted August 7, 2009 I agree with Guy: the consumerism on Porsches exhibited here is inane and the same thing goes for prejudices concerning cultural superiority in rich countries and against workers in developing countries. Would you expect that a tool (camera, car, whatever...) made in Somalia would be reliable and well-made? It's not cultural superiority. It's workforce skills, infrastructure and stable accountable leadership that make the difference. I have no problem with manufacture in countries other than the "first world", and in fact I support it for the same reasons Mitch has mentioned, but good workforce skills, proper infrastructure and accountable leadership are essential to making a good quality product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted August 7, 2009 Share #425 Posted August 7, 2009 Doug, there is no point in taking arguments to absurd extremes as no one would set up a camera manufacturing plant in Somalia or Haiti, a country that someone else used as an example; but China and Thailand, the countries I suggested as examples, are certainly no problem for Ricoh and Nikon, respectively. R10dreamer, I'm not calling for political correctness but only addressing issues related to world economic development. Taking the US, ceasing all offshore manufacturing in China would have dire effects in terms of wealth reduction in both countries. Japan is a good example as a country that has developed on the basis of exports, which had the concomitant effect of Japan having to invest in the US (Treasury bonds and investment) the dollars it earned through it's exports to keep up the value of the dollar and thus allow the US to purchase more of their exports — but then Japan, with increase of per capita income and wealth started to start it's own offshore production. China has been in a similar position as Japan in having to invest in US Treasury bonds, of which it is the largest holder, to keep up the value of the dollar. These issue are more complicated than the Manichean simplicities posted above and are best left to be discussed in another forum. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Bangkok Hysteria©: Book Project Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted August 7, 2009 Share #426 Posted August 7, 2009 Doug, there is no point in taking arguments to absurd extremes as no one would set up a camera manufacturing plant in Somalia or Haiti, a country that someone else used as an example; but China and Thailand, the countries I suggested as examples, are certainly no problem for Ricoh and and Nikon, respectively. Sure but I used Somalia as an obviously extreme example. Other countries are not so obviously extreme examples and often the line between 'extreme' and 'not so extreme' is more a matter of personal taste than of a clear definition. Repeating, I personally have no problem with non-EU / non-North American / non-Commonwealth products per se - but others are equally entitled to their opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted August 7, 2009 Share #427 Posted August 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree with Guy: the consumerism on Porsches exhibited here is inane and the same thing goes for prejudices concerning cultural superiority in rich countries and against workers in developing countries. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Scratching the Surface© porsches are high tech automobolies serving a restricted but viable market. what has that got to do with the leica S2, which is a semi-medium format camera overtaken from the left by the 35mm FF models (video, LV, superior AF etc) and from the right by real medium format producers like phase and hasselblad? peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
felipe-m Posted August 8, 2009 Share #428 Posted August 8, 2009 Japan is a good example as a country that has developed on the basis of exports, which had the concomitant effect of Japan having to invest in the US (Treasury bonds and investment) the dollars it earned through it's exports to keep up the value of the dollar and thus allow the US to purchase more of their exports — but then Japan, with increase of per capita income and wealth started to start it's own offshore production. China has been in a similar position as Japan in having to invest in US Treasury bonds, of which it is the largest holder, to keep up the value of the dollar. Well, after reading this, I must admit that you certainly seem an expert in simplyifing things to the absolute extreme. Black and white, life is so simple after all, how Manichean... These issue are more complicated than the Manichean simplicities posted above and are best left to be discussed in another forum. Yeah, human rights, the environment, etc. Such off topic simplicities... Now, US treasury bonds on the other hand... Now seriously, refering to wildlightphoto's posts, I very much hope Leica grows enough so that it can expand it's business, and hopefully in developing countries as well, and that it does so respecting human rights, etc. What they did with Jew workers in Nazi times is a good omen and speaks well of their integrity as a company... If this means the produtcs will not be so cheap, then so be it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted August 8, 2009 Share #429 Posted August 8, 2009 Would you expect that a tool (camera, car, whatever...) made in Somalia would be reliable and well-made? It's not cultural superiority. It's workforce skills, infrastructure and stable accountable leadership that make the difference. I have no problem with manufacture in countries other than the "first world", and in fact I support it for the same reasons Mitch has mentioned, but good workforce skills, proper infrastructure and accountable leadership are essential to making a good quality product. Repair turnaround time might be faster in Somalia than Solms (and definitely NJ). My first M8 was such a lemon compared to any other camera I've ever bought I'm just not buying into this superior German manufacturing. Design yes but not the assembling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 8, 2009 Share #430 Posted August 8, 2009 @charlesphoto99 What problems did you have with your M8? I only had problems with the CS, reattaching my leather covering properly... As already said, bodies are a tricky thing, while substancial parts of manufacturing are done in Germany (although not by Leica, only final assembly/testing is done in Solms itself) parts that can cause the complete loss of function are not from Germany... I think the lens-assembly is a better example for German-manufacturing, centration is close to perfect for every lens, the engraving, the mechanics - a quality-standard only known in professional businesses (cine-lenses, scientific lenses...). Every so-called "professional" lens (four-digit €) from C/N/O/P developed slight play in the focus rings... (they were unwilling to repair, because it was "within their tolerances"). "Made in Germany" is not a guarentee for quality, it's only the possibility for quality (infrastructure, skill, training, social/environmental standards, experience), "an open door" to quality every company, every worker has to walk through by itself... But somebody who claims to really care about quality and social standards but sends products tenthousands kilometers from China, uses thousands of workers @ <100$/month is like serial killer standing in front of a dead body with a bloody knife in his hands and saying "I didn't do it"... Oh man, I hope that makes halfway sense to readers with better English skills... ;-) I simply wish some of you could see what I've seen in the past decades in production... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.