Julian Thompson Posted July 17, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've read quite a bit on sensor cleaning and have purchased the 724 arctic butterfly in the hope of removing some minor dust spots from my M8. I've succeeded in moving them around but I can't shift them - actually overall I have made it worse! I've followed the instructions - whizzing the brush a few times to charge it etc.. and also tried all manner of 'across' and 'down' movements but basically it isn't helping me. The product has received terrific reviews everywhere and I was hoping it would solve my problem - can anyone shed any light on anything I might be doing wrong? I have some cleaning solution here that came with a little rag in a basic cleaning kit - I was thinking of trying this instead? Any help greatly appreciated! :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Hi Julian Thompson, Take a look here Arctic butterfly help - I don't seem to be getting a lot of success!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest WPalank Posted July 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 17, 2009 Julian, It seems to only work with fine particulate matter. If it is lubricant or another liquid-like mass, it will smear. I use high resolution loupes and a light source to see what I am dealing with. I typically have to follow with a wet clean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted July 17, 2009 Gotcha - I think then what has happened is that some other more greasy stuff from inside the camera has transferred to the sensor as I used the brush because it got better, better, almost there then worse, worse still and now dreadful! When you say a sensor swab do you mean an alcohol wipe or something? I guess the sensor is just actually glass so it won't really matter what I use as long as its clean? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted July 17, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Gotcha - I think then what has happened is that some other more greasy stuff from inside the camera has transferred to the sensor as I used the brush because it got better, better, almost there then worse, worse still and now dreadful! When you say a sensor swab do you mean an alcohol wipe or something? I guess the sensor is just actually glass so it won't really matter what I use as long as its clean? I'd be very careful there Julian. There are a multitude of companies that make specific swabs to the size of your sensor. Since you already have an account with Visible Dust, you might look at their website. I use their products as well. They have three different cleaning fluids, one specifically for lubricant or oil. A lot of people prefer Eclipse 2 or E2 solution. Edited July 17, 2009 by WPalank Correction Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 17, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 17, 2009 How old is your M? Mine insisted on spitting grease on my sensor for several months. It originates in the shutter mechanism. The only dependable cleaning technique is the following. Start by blowing out loose matter with air. Then follow with a wet cleaning. A moderately wet swab moved twice across the sensor in the same direction so it is all covered does usually do the job. Don't change direction because then you will drag the dirt back all over the cover glass. Do occasionally use a rubber bulb (not canned air, it can blow too hard on the shutter) to clear out dust from the shutter box, because by some infernal law of nature it will all eventually wind up on the sensor. This is a pain in the posterior but a lesser one than the accursed spotting I had to do on my prints when I had a wet darkroom. The old man from the Age of Hypo (not Hype) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted July 17, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 17, 2009 Get yourself Eclipse 2 sensor solution and the swabs #1 and use the technic in this video: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 17, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) My read on the sensor cleaning business is that it is a situation where you need to be prepared to use "escalating force". An illuminated loupe is a very good idea because you can get a better idea of what your "before" state is. After that, it seems to go: -- Puff -- Brush -- Wipe. If a good blower can't resolve it, then you try the brush (which might cause smearing), and finally the wipes. Even with the wipes, different formulations of the liquids deal better with different problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted July 17, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 17, 2009 If a good blower can't resolve it, then you try the brush (which might cause smearing), and finally the wipes. Even with the wipes, different formulations of the liquids deal better with different problems. "which might cause smearing" - That is an important issue... If you take your Arctic Butterfly to the sensor and it is an oil spot - you most likely have contaminated your AB brush with oil - so do not use it again on the sensor until you have cleaned or replaced the brush head... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted July 17, 2009 Excellent stuff - wet clean it is. Could be oil from the mech because the body is only a month old. I'm going out tomorrow and want to clean it tonight really. Am I ok to try ordinary common or garden alcohol swaps on the basis that glass is glass? (I read a few sites that talk about 'approved' solutions for the 'sensitive' sensor glass but as I sit here thinking logically the glass on the front of that sensor is either glass or it isn't - I can' see how glass can be 'sensitive' ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted July 17, 2009 Hmmm - I think the answer might be 'no' ! I tested a wipe on the LCD screen and it is way too 'wet' and even if left to evaporate it still leaves a droplet trail. I think the pad is nowhere near absorbent enough... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi4 Posted July 17, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 17, 2009 Julian, Sensor Swab #1 and Eclipse E2 is my method. Easily gets rid of smears, lubricant drops, and of course any dust particles. Blow first with a rubber hand blower to get rid of any dust which could scratch the sensor cover glass coating, pointing the camera lens mount down. Make sure your battery is fully charged and keep your finger away from the shutter release to ensure the shutter doesn't close while you have anything in there. My butterfly also produced smears from lubricant droplets. If you shoot a white surface at f16 or 22 with +1 EV, open the developed tiff in Photoshop and apply autocontrast, you can see the gook. Grease will show as sharp black spots, dust particles as fuzzy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 17, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 17, 2009 Excellent stuff - wet clean it is. Could be oil from the mech because the body is only a month old. I'm going out tomorrow and want to clean it tonight really. Am I ok to try ordinary common or garden alcohol swaps on the basis that glass is glass? (I read a few sites that talk about 'approved' solutions for the 'sensitive' sensor glass but as I sit here thinking logically the glass on the front of that sensor is either glass or it isn't - I can' see how glass can be 'sensitive' ? Yikes! NO!! Sensor cleaning is not the time for a do-it-yourself experiment. The surface of the sensor is certainly not "glass is glass"., Do the homework. Look for some kind of a SENSOR swab system that is sized for your sensor and has the fluid appropriate for your sensor's surface. Some have permanent wipes. Some take replaceable wipes. Some are pre-moistened. (Alcohol that you buy over the counter has a certain amount of water in it which varies. The alcohol is also allowed to have some impurities. Alcohol absorbs moisture from the atmosphere, so the longer it is out, the "wetter" it gets. This goes back to my days in the winery, where we made high proof alcohol: SFG and NSFG (Spirits, Fruit, Grape and Neutral Spirits, Fruit, Grape -- according to the feds. ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted July 17, 2009 I see and understand. I'll see if the local camera shop has a cleaning kit in the morning. Just out of interest - if the sensor front isn't glass what is it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted July 17, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 17, 2009 I could not agree more. I tried arctic Butterfly, which is highly touted, but quickly abandoned it in favor of Eclipse and swabs, which are easy and very effective. I found the Butterfly smeared. I tried on on my M8 and on my 5D. Same problem, and once it smears it means the strabnds on the butterly are contaminated and you need to clean them (wet I suppose, though I've not done it). The only problem with swabs and Eclipse is that you can't travel (fly) with them as Eclipse I believe is a no no for both checked and carry on. When I travel I carry a rocket blower and live with that. How old is your M? Mine insisted on spitting grease on my sensor for several months. It originates in the shutter mechanism. The only dependable cleaning technique is the following. Start by blowing out loose matter with air. Then follow with a wet cleaning. A moderately wet swab moved twice across the sensor in the same direction so it is all covered does usually do the job. Don't change direction because then you will drag the dirt back all over the cover glass. Do occasionally use a rubber bulb (not canned air, it can blow too hard on the shutter) to clear out dust from the shutter box, because by some infernal law of nature it will all eventually wind up on the sensor. This is a pain in the posterior but a lesser one than the accursed spotting I had to do on my prints when I had a wet darkroom. The old man from the Age of Hypo (not Hype) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted July 17, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 17, 2009 I see and understand. I'll see if the local camera shop has a cleaning kit in the morning. Just out of interest - if the sensor front isn't glass what is it? I believe the Leica M8 sensor has tin oxide. Do a little looking around the various sensor cleaning sites and you should be able to put together some kind of strategy. Whatever you get, you need to make sure it is appropriate in both size and solution for the M8 sensor. Remember that the M8 sensor is bigger the 4/3 and APS-C, and smaller than full frame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted July 18, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 18, 2009 Yes as just mentioned get a solution that is appropriate for the M8 sensor (My preference is Eclipse 2) and for swabs you need one that is the width of the M8 sensor (Swab #1 - 20mm) that with one stroke covers the sensor in a single wipe.... That's all you get, do not try to take the swab and attack a specific spot on the sensor or do a windshield wiper move!... You get one swipe across a sensor with each swab... any more just smears the stuff around... The swabs aren't cheap and you may need to use 3-4 the first time to get a sensor smearless but it will work in the end... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted July 18, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 18, 2009 As mentioned on other threads the cheap and pro method is to use lab grade iso-propyl alcohol, lab grade cotton swabs, and lab grade kleenex. This is what Leica recommends/uses & is about 100x cheaper than eclipse. The service engineer for my Leitz microscope even used chloroform to clean the objectives & oculars - do not try this at home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted July 18, 2009 Sounds sensible - where would one be able to get those things from? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 18, 2009 Yes as just mentioned get a solution that is appropriate for the M8 sensor (My preference is Eclipse 2) and for swabs you need one that is the width of the M8 sensor (Swab #1 - 20mm) that with one stroke covers the sensor in a single wipe.... That's all you get, do not try to take the swab and attack a specific spot on the sensor or do a windshield wiper move!... You get one swipe across a sensor with each swab... any more just smears the stuff around... The swabs aren't cheap and you may need to use 3-4 the first time to get a sensor smearless but it will work in the end... You need the Visible Dust 1.3 swab. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted July 18, 2009 Thanks jaap! Sorry to be a pain - I have just looked at a website selling Visible Dust products and I'm totally overwhelmed - there are dozens of products. Even the 1.3 swabs seem to come in different 'colour' ratings? Also - there are different fluids? Do they do a kit I can buy that will be suitable or could you help me out with exactly what to order? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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