Yadda, yadda, yadda

[harmsr]

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I really hope Leica will do what is right and replace our M8s with new ones that have the issues fixed.

 

I am one of the guys yelling that I have not heard this from Leica and will continue to do so, until I do. Once again if I don't, then I return the camera now and maybe will consider buying one again when it is completely fixed and tested in the market place.

 

Having said that, I will relate a story about how Leica and a dealer did take care of me when the M7s first came out. I was one of the first buyers of the M7, when it came out. My first M7 shot 3 rolls and then all the LEDs in the VF died. I called the dealer and they said I could just exchange it with the last one they had. This second body shot two rolls of film and the meter would say 1/250 was the correct shutter speed no matter what. It always told me 1/250th was correct by the arrows in manual or the actual reading in AE. Once again, I called the dealer and he did not have another one to exchange. The local Leica rep. (Boston, MA) then called me and picked up the camera. He got me a new M7, when they were extremely scarce, from Leica the USA and delivered it to my office the next day.

 

What I keep trying to convey is the measure of a great company is how they handle a problem when they have one. Leica treated me well on the M7. My issue on the M8 is that I do NOT hear them saying what needs to be said. An ambiguous statement of we are aware of the problems, they are working on them, and will anounce their plan in the next couple of weeks does NOT say anything about solving the issues for the current owners in an ACCEPTABLE manner. I am also VERY WORRIED about Leica taking the "easy way out" with partial fixes, additional financial costs to M8 owners, and requiring a significant amount of time to be without the camera during a return to the factory. Assuming the fix requires the existing cameras to be replaced / returned to the factory, they should stop shipping of the M8 immediately. Has this happened?

 

Ray

[carstenw]

Ray (and others who don't like the wording of Leica's statement),

 

have you considered that Leica may not want to promise something they cannot deliver? The sensor for the M8 was developed especially to overcome some really difficult problems, and the IR glass thickness was part of a series of design decisions which allowed an M8 to be developed at all. I am certain that Leica understands how mad people will be if they have to use IR filters on their lenses, but it may be that there is no acceptable alternative.

 

Some people have said "coat the sensor with an IR coating". Apparently, this is already the case. Others say "put a thicker IR filter on the sensor". Apart from the fact that this would mean a thicker sensor assembly, which might require retooling the M8 body, this would also introduce more optical problems with wide-angle lenses, and would possibly lose the sharp corners possible with the current design. Others shout "I don't care what you do, but do it in-camera, perfectly, and at no extra cost". Well, how nice of you to rant, but Leica can only do what is possible.

 

I think that Leica will come up with the best *possible* solution. If they say "filters", then they will say so because it is the best or only technical solution, not because it is expedient or cheap. When have you ever known Leica to take an expedient or cheap path?

 

And Ray, apparently M8 shipments, or at least production, may already have been stopped. Some comments made to dealer make this seem likely. However, Leica is and always was a discreet company, and I doubt they will ever tell us their minute-by-minute decisions. In a sense, it is irrelevant if they stop production or shipments anyway. The critical part is that their customers end up happy.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I think so, based on 50 years of history, but I am certainly nervous because the fate of the M8 seems to be in the hands of marketing people who show little understanding of the technical issues that have to be sorted out. Their cautious statements*, as Joe Wisniewski has pointed out, are full of misconceptions. The thickness of the cover glass on the sensor has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the deposited IR filter, which is 50-100 times thinner. The decision to start shipments while the plan of record was to offer at a later date, special filters, a firmware upgrade and additional properties keyed to lens code for the lenses that Leica currently manufactures is mind-boggling.

 

Reviewers like SR and MR talk about how they have direct access to Leica executives, but these executives only relay questions and return answers after uncertain delays. Their other responsibilities include placing early units of the M8 with celebrities like Seal, so I have to suspect that they view the reviewers that we read as a source of visibility more than as technical feedback, and want their "buy-in" more than their tough scrutiny.

 

scott

 

*here I am thinking of the status report that was sent to Sean Reid and printed on his site.

[petermcwerner]

have Leica already STOPPED all shipments of the camera to dealers around the world until they have fixed the

They have in Switzerland yesterday, I do not know about other countries

[stunsworth]

Peter, the following was posted on the LUG by David S Rosen who attended a Leica event in the States...

 

"The Leica rep at the event seemed quite well informed about the various

[scandalous] problems with the first batch of M8s. He confirmed that they

were well known by Leica and that a fix was assured. He suggested this

would be a firmware fix, but I think this was just speculation on his part.

Both he and the store manager also made it clear that shipping of M8s has

been suspended until the problems are corrected. "