D&A Posted July 6, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi All, I posted this message (problem) elsewhere to see how widespread this issue might be. So far one other person has a similar problem (same brand filter but a regular UV rather than UVIR. Here is what I observed... I just screwed on a brand new 58mm B+W UVIR 486 cut filter onto the front of the Nokton 50mm f1.1. The B+W filter is the regular NOT slim type (I made sure). When I screw in the hood into the filter...it takes hold and starts screwing in but it never fully reaches a point where it FULLY tightens...just round and round...it sort of half way screwed in but that's about it. Here's the kicker!!! The hood will screw into any other 58mm I tried..all brands, and I tried many (don't have any other 58mm B+W filters though.) The hood will also screw into any step rings. Now I tried the converse....I tried screwing in a couple of other 58mm hood into the B+W as well as step rings into it's front threads....and everything screws in fine! I can't figure out what gives? Defective filter threads...doesn't seem like it. Defective hood threads..also doesn't seem like it. Incompatibility between these specific two items? Hmmm? Only thing I can see different with the B+W front filter threads as opposed to other brand 58mm front filter threads...are there are less "turns" or less threads on the B+W one. Has anyone run into this issue? Has anyone tried specifically a B+W 58mm UVIR 486 filter with the new hood from Voigtlander 50mm f1.1 lens? For the time being, since the lens cap threads seem to be threaded for filters, I screwed the filter into those threads and don't think vignetting will be a problem due to the M8 1.3x crop factor, but then there is less hood coverage and also bigger interface between filter and front element of lens which may give additional rise to flair. Thanks for any suggestions or insight! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Hi D&A, Take a look here Nokton 50mm f/1.1 Filter Problem!!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 6, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 6, 2009 Dave, Unscrew the filter, then mount the filter in the tread inside the lens hood. (they appear to be pretty serious about making you use the hood) The effect is because of the short tread used in the hood which prevent it from being mounted into a filter.. (i was surprised also) DUH... editing, I did not read all of your post. sorry. .. my filter is a B+W like yours. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted July 7, 2009 Hi Bo, Thanks for your reply, Actually the instructions that come with the 50mm f1.1, specifically says not to mount the filter in the hood but on the lens itself...and that creates the issue I described. Bo, are you using a B+W UV IR cut filter with your 50mm f1.1? If so, can you take a moment and screw it directly onto the lens and then try screwing your hood onto the filter? If you try this. please let me know if you encounter the same problem as I have. Many Thanks! Regards, Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 7, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 7, 2009 I have the identical experience. the hood spins once screwed into the filter tread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted July 7, 2009 Hi Bo, Thanks once again for your reply! Well at least its good to know I'm not alone and that neither my B+W filter nor the 50mm f1.1 lens hood is defective. It appears that the two products are just incompatable...since the hood screws into every other 58mm filter by other brands. Hope there is some resolution to this since I wuld ant more coverage by the hood and the filter to sit closer to the front element of the lens. Thanks again! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 7, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 7, 2009 Good Morning Dave, Actually, there might be a solution in about a month or so. I am designing a 1.3x crop rectangular hood to go in front of the filter, with a cutout for the rangefinder.. I am kind of getting annoyed with "sloppy" hoods, there is a reason these were invented, to keep the glass out of as much stray light as possible. it is simply ridiculous to not have a dedicated hood for a lens used on a 1.3x crop factor camera since clearly we are using these lenses as if they were longer. Leica have made a big deal of rectangular accurate lens hoods for quite a while, I find it strange that they did not offer tighter hoods for the lenses when the M8 was released. (well that is just my sick way of thinking I guess) The long and the short of the story, is that I am slowly getting ready to 3D print a number of hoods for my own lenses. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted July 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Bo, Excellent idea....although something tells me even if you design a better dedicated "rectangle" hood for the 50mm f1.1 that can be used for both full frame as well as 1.3x crop sensors..it wil be a big improvement. Just make sure yoru hoods can screw into a 58mm B+W UVIR filter Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted July 7, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 7, 2009 Good Morning Dave, The long and the short of the story, is that I am slowly getting ready to 3D print a number of hoods for my own lenses. . This seems to me to be a sure way to guarantee a full-frame digital M will come soon! Actually it's a very good idea. I've wondered myself why Leica doesn't offer 1.3x crop hoods for their lenses. After all, it's an easy way to make some extra cash. And they'd be totally optional. Those who shoot film (or M8 and film together) wouldn't have to use them. In many cases they could be smaller in diameter, which would be a plus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted July 7, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 7, 2009 ..... I find it strange that they did not offer tighter hoods for the lenses when the M8 was released...... Bo - Agreed. I too find it bizarre, as is the acceptance of hoods wrongly sized for M8 sensor use by forum contributors who quickly notice other short-comings. ................ Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampguy Posted July 7, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 7, 2009 Bo, This makes a lot of sense. I noticed that getting a cylindrical shaped hood for a 35 or 40, while expecting a wide shape from a vendor, that it worked fine on RD1 and M8, so tighter shaped hoods, smaller, and with less blockage for the M8 make a lot of sense. I'd be interested in hoods for the 35/2 cron but screw in or mounting like the v3 does, (12504?), 28 Elmarit V4. The late pre-asph 50 lux, and 75/1.4 lux, and ltm pentax 43 have built in (cylindrical, of course) hoods, so no needs there. Also, a 40mm Canon 28/2.8 wide hood would be nice, but so far am getting along with a Canon to 43mm hood off a 40/1.4 Nokton, that works. Good Morning Dave, Actually, there might be a solution in about a month or so. I am designing a 1.3x crop rectangular hood to go in front of the filter, with a cutout for the rangefinder.. I am kind of getting annoyed with "sloppy" hoods, there is a reason these were invented, to keep the glass out of as much stray light as possible. it is simply ridiculous to not have a dedicated hood for a lens used on a 1.3x crop factor camera since clearly we are using these lenses as if they were longer. Leica have made a big deal of rectangular accurate lens hoods for quite a while, I find it strange that they did not offer tighter hoods for the lenses when the M8 was released. (well that is just my sick way of thinking I guess) The long and the short of the story, is that I am slowly getting ready to 3D print a number of hoods for my own lenses. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted July 7, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 7, 2009 I can think of two reasons for the problem: 1. The front thread of the filter mount doesn't extend all the way to the front of the rim. 2. The thread on the lens hood doesn't extend all the way to the back of the hood. Either one of these or a combination could be the cause. When you screw the hood into the filter do the threads actually engage so that you can't pull the two apart, or do they never engage no matter how much you turn. If they never engage then grinding off a small amount from the back of the hood or the front of the filter mount could solve the problem. I notice on my normal 60mm B+W UV-IR filter that there is a small unthreaded section at the front of the rim, so that might be the cause. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted July 8, 2009 Hi Bob, The hood when screwed into the B+W filter, does catch and they can't be pulled apart but the hood never tightens...just goes round and round. I now tried it with a brand new Hoya 58mm filter and same thing. The hood though works foine with a tiffen 58mm filter. The B+W and Hoya filters have two "turns" worth of front threads..the Tiffen has three! Also keep in mind, the hood will scrw in properly to every step ring I tried....and every other 58mm hood will tighten properly onto the B+W 58mm filter. It's the interaction of this specific hood and B+W (and also now Hoys) filters, that are the problem. Thanks! David (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted July 10, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 10, 2009 David B*gg*r. I have exactly the same problem. Now what? I'll have to check out the thread on the filter. For resale value purposes only, I don't really want to attack the hood itself. LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted July 10, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 10, 2009 Louis/David, I had another look at the B+W filters I have and I notice the thread on the front of the filters is only about 2 1/2 to 3 turns. Between the back of the thread and the mount where the glass is there is an unthreaded section. If the hood has only a few turns on it's thread and then an unthreaded section behind it might be possible for the hood threads to screw into the filter and out the other side into the unthreaded section of the filter mount. The hood would then keep turning and there's not much you could do to the hood or filter to fix it. A solution might be a thin washer on the hood which would prevent the hood from screwing so far into the filter. The hood would then tighten up against the washer. A less neat method could be to partially screw on the filter and wrap some thread (or a thin strip of self amalgamating plumbers tape) in the gap between the filter and hood, then tighten up the hood. An alternative solution would be to remove the glass from another manufactures filter which doesn't have the problem and replace it with the UV-IR glass from the B+W filter. I've done this in the past for a 50 1.2 Hexanon and Summarex. I have a vested interest in a solution since I've been thinking about the lens for some time. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted July 11, 2009 Hi gravastar, All your suggestions are do-able, but a bit of a pain. Yes, the B+W filter ahs few threads and so does the hood...and combined, these two products together don't mesh. Seperately with most all other filters, step rings etc....both do fine. For the time being, I had a 58mm screw in meatl hood...which is a bit long, but works perfectly with both lens and filter. Only thing is when lens is set to 1.1 and min focusing dostance and I take a pic of the clear blue sky...I can see a hint of vignetting (on M8). This hood would never work with full frame. I might just keep it this way till I find a more suitable hood..and the trace of vignetting (ever so slight)..might actually add to some images. Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted February 19, 2011 Share #16 Posted February 19, 2011 Just bought a 50mm Nokton 1.1 and B+W 007 MRC filter. No problem at all attaching the filter to the lens and then fastening the hood to the filter, as CV instructs. Everything is tight as a drum. Maybe CV and/or B+W modified things since the original post and replies. Hope this helps. BTW, I'm using an M9 (not that it should matter, but this post is in the M8 forum). Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesk8752 Posted February 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted February 25, 2011 Just bought a 50mm Nokton 1.1 and B+W 007 MRC filter. No problem at all attaching the filter to the lens and then fastening the hood to the filter, as CV instructs. Everything is tight as a drum. Maybe CV and/or B+W modified things since the original post and replies. Hope this helps. BTW, I'm using an M9 (not that it should matter, but this post is in the M8 forum).Rich +1 on that. I just checked my Nokton 50/1.1 (bought used last year) with a new 58mm B+W 486 filter, and everything screwed together tight as it should. Regards, Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timpassey Posted March 9, 2011 Share #18 Posted March 9, 2011 Just bought my Nokton at Tin Cheung in Hong Kong. They screwed the UV filter into the hood with disregard for the Voigtlander guide. It is now stuck. Going back tomorrow to get them to sort it out. A dealer really should know this stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrh68uk Posted March 10, 2011 Share #19 Posted March 10, 2011 Hope you get that sorted out, Tim. I've just bought the Nokton 50 from a forum member and I was going to order a B&W for it, but I happened to be in town yesterday and spotted a Hoya Pro1 58mm and bought it. Filter on lens, hood on filter and everything is tight and secure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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