backing up M8 DNG files to external hard drive

[mikpeter]

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I am in need of some help with backing up my files to a external hard drive. I have all my images backed up on DVD and on my internal hard drive. So I decided to back all my images onto one dedicated external hard drive.

 

So here is the problem, I use both Lightroom and capture one to process my raw images and the way the individual programs catalog the files are different, resulting in my files being all over the place.

 

Is there a way people back up their files onto a hard drive more easily instead of manually doing it? and how do you categorize the files, dates, etc??

 

Thanks in advance

[sfokevin]

I am not sure how Capture 1 works... But I have all my Photos in my Picture folder and the Lightroom catalog is also in the Picture folder... I have a application called Memeo Life Agent that make a instant sync backup of my Documents & Picture folder to my external drive (which is a wifi connected RAID Lacie drive) - Yes overkill

 

I would assume if Capture 1's catalog or whatever file system it uses is also in the Picture folder any backup of the Picture folder in its entirety would be sufficient... If the Catalogs are somewhere else you can add the folders/catalog to the sync

[rob_w]

If you have a Mac you can just get an external HD drive, plug it in and turn on Time Machine. It backs up everything on your drive without you needing to think about it any more.

 

I know this does not answer your implied question about the structure of files in each application, but it will make you safe very quickly.

 

I am sure there will be similar programs for PC users which you could consider if you do not have a Mac. I am just surprised how many Mac owners don't use Time Machine even though it is simple and rock solid.

 

Cheers

 

Robert

[Shootist]

I store all my images in main folders by year then month and date. So I have a folder for 2009 and in that folder there are subfolders for each day I took images on. I may also have named subfolder in the 2009 folder if I took a lot of images at one event or city I traveled to

 

I then import those image into lightroom leaving them where they are on my hard drive and adding them to the catalog for 2009.

 

In C1 which I don't use to often I just use the system folder pane to browse to where the images are. The one thing that I rreally can't stand about the newer versions of C1 is it drops folders and files in every image folder I look at and I have to delete them before I back up my images to a external HDD.

 

I choose where all my images are kept. I don't let any program decide. That way when I need to copy them, back them up, to the external HDD they are all in one place.

[efftee]

Yeah, pretty much what Rob has said. Time Machine is the easiest fuss free way of back-up for a Mac user.

 

If you choose to do manual backups, with Capture One, you are able to manually select each file (or image) from each session. With Aperture, all the images are all rolled into one giant library file and you either back-up everything or nothing. Not sure what LR is like though.

[ljclark]

I'm not sure if there is a Time Machine equivalent for the PC world yet. Genie-Soft makes a range of more traditionally structured backup software. I use Genie-8 Pro. Genie announced months ago that their PC equivalent to Time Machine was right around the corner...But when you followed the link, the corner turned out to be somewhere down the street and they were taking e-mail addresses of folks who wanted to be notified when the product was released. Still waiting.

 

Regarding RAID...RAID 0 is perhaps the worst way imaginable for HD-based backups since there is no fault tolerance. RAID 1 also carries risk, depending upon how fast you spot an HD fault, and how good your data recovery software is. RAID 5 is a reliable option used by many, but you "loose" one disk's worth of capacity. I run three 1.5 TB drives in an eSATA cabinet in a RAID 5 configuration, That gives me 2.7 TB of capacity. Depending upon the type of backup you perform, your backup drive capacity may need to be much larger than your primary disks.

[stunsworth]

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When I used a PC I used this software to mirror files to an external hard drive...

 

MirrorFolder: A real-time backup software

 

It can be set up not to mirror deletes, so if you accidentally delete a file it will still be available on the back up drive.

[adli]

Lightroom has an option called "back up to different destination" where you can choose to have Lightroom put a copy of the photos you import on a different directory or drive. the files will be sorted by date.

[Guest V64]

LR and Time Machine

 

I have read somewhere that if TM backs up (i.e. copies) the LR catalogue during a LR update of the catalogue (which Is some form of database - possibly Relational) then the copy could be invalid.

 

The following link might be of interest

 

Cach Tips: Time Machine as database backup solution - Bad Idea

[guidomo]

resulting in my files being all over the place.

 

What do you mean by that? Even if they are, can you not copy the entire directory tree over? Or is it mixed with other files you don't want to back up? That would be a truly messy file structure.

[gfspencer]

If you have a Mac you can just get an external HD drive, plug it in and turn on Time Machine. It backs up everything on your drive without you needing to think about it any more.

That's what I do. I've never been told that it was a bad idea. But just in case . . . I also back up my photos on a Western Digital Passport for Mac.

[cre8ing]

On the external hard drive make a picture folder. Then open your picture folder on your mac. You will see folders with a year on it. Drag it to the hard drive file and it should copy the whole file with the data.

[rob_w]

LR and Time Machine

 

I have read somewhere that if TM backs up (i.e. copies) the LR catalogue during a LR update of the catalogue (which Is some form of database - possibly Relational) then the copy could be invalid.

 

The following link might be of interest

 

Cach Tips: Time Machine as database backup solution - Bad Idea

 

Thanks, I had a look at the link. The Cache people are talking about database integrity problems which might arise if a copy is taken while a database transaction is in the middle of being written. I do not know what Time Machine would do under such circumstances -- probably it would take a 'before' copy as OSX would lock the file from use. However, since TM takes a new copy every 30 minutes or so, any problem would be remedied by the next file copy.

 

I would not use Time Machine to back up a banking system or an airline reservation system, but for folders of DNG files and other personal data it is just fine. In fact I have twice done a restore from Time Machine when setting up new machines to replace old ones and it has restored the catalog and files perfectly.

 

Cheers

 

Robert

[Mark Pope]

Lightroom has an option called "back up to different destination" where you can choose to have Lightroom put a copy of the photos you import on a different directory or drive. the files will be sorted by date.

 

This is exactly what we do with our files. They are copied to the external HDD while they are imported into Lightroom. They are put into folders called something like 'imported on dd/mm/yyyy'. All you do in Lightroom is specify the destination path in the import dialogue and away you go.

 

We also back up the catalogues to a separate, networked drive every time Lightroom starts. So hopefully, we're covered if things should go belly-up...

 

 

With respect to Time Machine, I am interested in seeing whether I can use it to back up a couple of macbooks to a networked drive on a machine running Ubuntu. Has anyone managed to get this working?

 

 

Regards

 

 

Mark

[Guest V64]

Thanks, I had a look at the link. The Cache people are talking about database integrity problems which might arise if a copy is taken while a database transaction is in the middle of being written. I do not know what Time Machine would do under such circumstances -- probably it would take a 'before' copy as OSX would lock the file from use. However, since TM takes a new copy every 30 minutes or so, any problem would be remedied by the next file copy.

 

I would not use Time Machine to back up a banking system or an airline reservation system, but for folders of DNG files and other personal data it is just fine. In fact I have twice done a restore from Time Machine when setting up new machines to replace old ones and it has restored the catalog and files perfectly.

 

Cheers

 

Robert

 

Robert,

 

I agree the LR database is very far from being a banking or airline system, however I would not use TM to backup LR (or even Aperture) catalogs or Libraries if you need a guaranteed backup and restore service.

 

See the following ref.

 

Lightroom and Time Machine Update - Inside Lightroom

 

Losing the Catalog and Library may not be the same disaster as losing the DNGs - but there seems to be a lot of concern about the issue, so if you need a guarantee then look very hard at what goes on if you use TM.

 

David

[hdrmd]

I agree that Time machine works well for Mac users, but another Mac App is Aperture. Put your files in an Aperture Library and just copy the Library to an external hard drive. Aperture allows you to reference your files anywhere you like. DR

[george +]

I have tried and abandoned all attempts to use packaged software for simple and logical tasks like keeping track of my shots.

As to most packaged solutions, an old German saying summarizes it well: warum einfach, wenn es kann man kompliziert machen? (why do things simple when one can complicate them?)

 

So I do very much like Shootist. Create and manage my own folders by date, grouped by year.

Keep the current year on the desktop and copy it all to an external RAID 1 network drive.

 

Nothing could be simpler. And, most importantly, I know what is happening and where everything is.

[wlaidlaw]

Capture One will do this automatically if you have a permanently attached external hard drive or a network one. It is just a matter of setting it up on the download screen. I use the Leica numbering consistently for all my files DNG's and TIFF's. I use iPhoto for my library and I can just cross reference from the TIFF file name from the named and dated event to track the archived DNG on either of my external back up drives (Time Capsule and DataTank). I back up my iMac daily and the two external HD's back up to each other daily also, all using Chronosync.

 

Back up twice at least! Back in the UK, my wife's 18 month old Western Digital My Book back up drive died last week. No loss as she is also backed up once a week from her iMac to our Time Capsule (not used as Time Machine - I think this a horrible program - it keeps falling over and eats hard disc space). When I get back to the UK I will use the trick of putting the HD in the deep freeze for 20 minutes as that often resurrects them. Meanwhile new HD external back disc bought.

 

Wilson

[Dougg]

I also rely on Time Machine for backups to another drive, and also do periodic manual backups to a different hard drive kept in a fire-resistant safe.

 

I do use Capture One, and keep all its operation within one folder dedicated to the files of one SD card. Whenever I'm "done" with an SD card I think of it like a roll of film and put the DNG files in one folder, where they're all renamed in the pattern yymmddnn-nnn where the final "nnn" corresponds with the "frame number" starting with 001. So inside the roll folder there's a DNG Files folder, which I designate as C1's Capture Folder. I also create another folder next to it named TIFF files, and designate that as the Output Folder.

 

When I'm done with C1, I open the TIFF files with other graphic software for further processing. Yes, C1 puts a "Capture One" folder in the DNG Files folder, and that's ok, as this is how it stores its records of what editing was done on each file. These are useful if you open the DNG with C1 again later, and there's no reason not to back them up along with the rest.

 

This simple storage structure, using the innate features of the Mac Finder, make it easy to find stuff, and further my other graphic software has a Browser feature that shows thumbnails of all the files in a chosen folder... good for finding just the right one to upload to the forum. I've fairly well concluded I don't need the organizational features of Aperture or Lightroom, and C1 does a great job on the DNGs from both the M8 and my Pentax.

 

Edit: Should add that I keep a separate FileMaker database record of each "roll" of digital files with subject info, dates, equipment, prints made, etc. This integrates with my film work so I can find what I'm looking for quickly.

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[rob_w]

Robert,

 

I agree the LR database is very far from being a banking or airline system, however I would not use TM to backup LR (or even Aperture) catalogs or Libraries if you need a guaranteed backup and restore service.

 

See the following ref.

 

Lightroom and Time Machine Update - Inside Lightroom

 

Losing the Catalog and Library may not be the same disaster as losing the DNGs - but there seems to be a lot of concern about the issue, so if you need a guarantee then look very hard at what goes on if you use TM.

 

David

 

Thanks for the reference David. I don't want to prolong the discussion too much. There may well be technical difficulties in very specific circumstances which mean that Adobe will not confirm the use of Time Machine, perhaps in case of legal liability. In the referenced entry there are many posters contradicting the original article and my own experience is one having done a number of restores from and checks of TM, specifically including LR and the LR Catalog, which all worked perfectly well.

 

What I would not want to see is an atmosphere of FUD ('Fear Uncertainty Doubt') confusing non-technical users over the safety of using Time Machine and discouraging them from taking a simple, sensible step. TM is an excellent product and something the computer industry should have implemented a generation ago. When I read about other users having to put failed HD drives in the freezer and similar I just get so mad at the computer industry and its irresponsible treatment of customers.

 

As others here do, I also make a periodic copy of the DNGs and the Catalog to yet another external hard drive which I then keep in a fire-resistant safe to protect against physical loss or damage.

 

Cheers

 

Robert