What other changes would you like to see?

[andrewrossphotographs]

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Now there has been an official response from Leica and a correction is in process for the magenta/AWB/streaking issues; I presume all 3 problems are being acted upon! I for one was wondering what other changes would be useful in the M8 too?

 

Perhaps not so essential, but kind of frustrating to see, here are two from me:

 

1. Start up delay should be much shorter that 2 seconds.

2. When reviewing images on the monitor, there is about a 2 second delay while the in-camera processing takes effect on the review image.

 

These two factors I feel should have not been present in a professional calibre model like the M8 in 2006, these issues got dealt with years ago by other manufacturers on their professional product line. Perhaps this can be dealt with by firmware too, any comments?

[harmsr]

Andrew,

 

Nothing personal here, but I hope this thread gets ignored. We REALLY need Leica to focus on the Magenta/IR, banding/green blob issues first, to be followed by the WB inconsistency.

 

I hope that is all they think about technically.

 

On the commercial side, I REALLY hope they understand all these fixes need to be at no cost and no inconvenience to us existing owners.

 

Leica - Please fix this and exchange the cameras already in the field. This NEEDS to be announced now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If not, mine will be returned with only a possible reconsideration for purchase after everything is well solved.

 

Ray

[MP3]

Now there has been an official response from Leica and a correction is in process for the magenta/AWB/streaking issues; I presume all 3 problems are being acted upon! I for one was wondering what other changes would be useful in the M8 too?

 

Perhaps not so essential, but kind of frustrating to see, here are two from me:

 

1. Start up delay should be much shorter that 2 seconds.

2. When reviewing images on the monitor, there is about a 2 second delay while the in-camera processing takes effect on the review image.

 

These two factors I feel should have not been present in a professional calibre model like the M8 in 2006, these issues got dealt with years ago by other manufacturers on their professional product line. Perhaps this can be dealt with by firmware too, any comments?

 

Hi Andrew

 

Reading your previous thread, are you in HK as well? I agree it is positive and constructive for us to lay down a list of expected improvements so Solms can take it as a base or community views for further refining the M8.

 

For #1, I do not perceive any delay which is significant to bother my start up shot. I mean when I click it ON and put the VF to my eye, it is ready to shoot. Some folks here had pointed out the 2 sec. is just the official data stated in product info. M8 apparently checks its SD and battery status when it starts up, but the time should be minimal.

 

For #2, I found the picture review at the LCD is rather chunky, just not the smoothness I would expect. Sometimes it delay to display when I scroll through the pics in the SD, sometimes it scroll well. All in all, a delay every 3 scrolls on average. The JPEG displayed sometime show jigsaw edges on fine details and apparently it takes some time to process before we can zoom in for details. When comparing to the D2 in these aspects, I believe there is certainly space for M8 improvement.

 

Now I would add,

 

3. It would be great to show the shutter speed all the time in the VF even in manual mode. Without moving my eye off the VF, I can easy know what aperture I'm using, turning the ring and count by heart. As the shutter ring is a bi-directional ring up to 1/8000s, it got 36 click stops, so you know what I mean. It is certainly more direct to know the shutter speed in the VF.

 

I've been thinking twice before I write, so I think these will be just common concerns for us here.

 

Best

Matthew

[think]

The following control changes would be nice.

 

When the metering display is activated, a press of either the UP or DOWN control dial buttons changes the 4 digit VF display to show ISO. A further press of either adjusts the ISO value in the chosen direction.

 

When the metering display is activated, a press of either the LEFT or Right control dial buttons changes the 4 digit VF display to show Exposure Compensation. A further press of either adjusts the EC value.

 

This display returns to normal with the "metering" press of the shutter, change in shutter speed, activation of exposure lock, on a user set timeout value, etc.

 

In this way ISO and exposure can be adjusted without removing your eye from the finder and the LCD needn't be used. I also agree that there's no reason no to show the shutter speed in manual. if it's not desired turn it off via the menus.

 

Can this be accomplished via a firmware update?

[andrewrossphotographs]

Hi Andrew

 

Reading your previous thread, are you in HK as well? I agree it is positive and constructive for us to lay down a list of expected improvements so Solms can take it as a base or community views for further refining the M8.

 

Now I would add,

 

3. It would be great to show the shutter speed all the time in the VF even in manual mode. Without moving my eye off the VF, I can easy know what aperture I'm using, turning the ring and count by heart. As the shutter ring is a bi-directional ring up to 1/8000s, it got 36 click stops, so you know what I mean. It is certainly more direct to know the shutter speed in the VF.

 

I've been thinking twice before I write, so I think these will be just common concerns for us here.

 

Best

Matthew

 

Hi Matthew

 

Yes I'm in HK too, well for part of the year anyhow! Thanks for you input.

 

I do agree it is constructive rather than destructive to point things out this is what the forum is for too, with all due respect, if these things can be corrected by firmware, then why not let Leica know now what's important, I'm certainly routing for a top calibre camera that meets professional expectations when this is all sorted out, but of course Ray is correct to point out the immediate problems are the most important issues first to deal with.

 

Your added third point; I agree with you too and that sounds like something the firmware could be tweaked to do easily.

[think]

I'm not sure that I agree Ray, but that's what discussion forums are for right?

 

Imaging shorcomings aside, I would still be bothered by the some of the functionality of the user interface as shipped. I doubt that any desired changes posted herein will ever make it to the M8, but while "we" potentially have their ear it might give them food for further thought.

 

My Canon DSLRs allow me to change ISO and EC without having to use the rear display. The custom functions allow you to make these set points easier to change via the top status LCD. It can be done either way, but the topside display is the easier interface for me to work with. I rarely use the main display when working unless a CF ie. mirror lockup needs to be set and that's an issue for another forum.

[MP3]

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Hi Matthew

 

... but of course Ray is correct to point out the immediate problems are the most important issues first to deal with.

 

Your added third point; I agree with you too and that sounds like something the firmware could be tweaked to do easily.

 

Yes, we just give constructive feedbacks. Leica will prioritise them for sure.

 

Cheers

Matthew

[Jamie Roberts]

The following control changes would be nice.

 

When the metering display is activated, a press of either the UP or DOWN control dial buttons changes the 4 digit VF display to show ISO. A further press of either adjusts the ISO value in the chosen direction.

 

When the metering display is activated, a press of either the LEFT or Right control dial buttons changes the 4 digit VF display to show Exposure Compensation. A further press of either adjusts the EC value.

 

This display returns to normal with the "metering" press of the shutter, change in shutter speed, activation of exposure lock, on a user set timeout value, etc.

 

In this way ISO and exposure can be adjusted without removing your eye from the finder and the LCD needn't be used. I also agree that there's no reason no to show the shutter speed in manual. if it's not desired turn it off via the menus.

 

Can this be accomplished via a firmware update?

 

I would second, third, fourth and fifth this change!

[marknorton]

The arrow buttons and thumb wheel are currently unused in shooting mode so there's certainly scope in firmware to make use of them.

 

I'd like to see a strong detent on the power switch and a smoother shutter release. Most of all, they need to thing whether hardware changes would help get the white balance right, such as an ambient light sensor.

 

Many of us would also like a bigger top panel LCD carrying the ISO and EV as well.

 

Realistically, Leica are going to have to concentrate on the essentials here - purple, banding and blobs, white balance.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The following control changes would be nice.

 

When the metering display is activated, a press of either the UP or DOWN control dial buttons changes the 4 digit VF display to show ISO. A further press of either adjusts the ISO value in the chosen direction.

 

When the metering display is activated, a press of either the LEFT or Right control dial buttons changes the 4 digit VF display to show Exposure Compensation. A further press of either adjusts the EC value.

 

This display returns to normal with the "metering" press of the shutter, change in shutter speed, activation of exposure lock, on a user set timeout value, etc.

 

In this way ISO and exposure can be adjusted without removing your eye from the finder and the LCD needn't be used. I also agree that there's no reason no to show the shutter speed in manual. if it's not desired turn it off via the menus.

 

Can this be accomplished via a firmware update?

 

Sean Reid has a slightly different proposal which addresses the same issues -- managing the most frequent non-film parameters without having to use the LCD. Check his first M8 review. He says that he had begun discussing these with Leica, and had gotten some traction (before the current issues got to the top of the stack). Can you compare your ideas with his and comment on the differences?

 

scott

[andrewrossphotographs]

.....they need to thing whether hardware changes would help get the white balance right, such as an ambient light sensor......

 

Absolutely!

 

I was surprised myself that no external ambient WB sensor is visible on the M8 and am still curious how the AWB is actually derived, ofcourse we are hoping that it doesn't need an external sensor and firmware tweaks will sort this out.

[marknorton]

There evidence from Guy's test that the WB is itself affected by infra-red. Take out the infra-red and the WB improves.

[andrewrossphotographs]

There evidence from Guy's test that the WB is itself affected by infra-red. Take out the infra-red and the WB improves.

 

that's interesting to hear, thanks!

[Vivek Iyer]

The price.

 

It should be in line with modern offerings. $3,000 or less/per unit would be fair.

[carstenw]

The price.

 

It should be in line with modern offerings. $3,000 or less/per unit would be fair.

$3000 would be in line with a Japanese DSLR perhaps, but the Leica isn't made to those standards. It probably costs more than that to make.

[Vivek Iyer]

$3000 would be in line with a Japanese DSLR perhaps, but the Leica isn't made to those standards. It probably costs more than that to make.

 

Thanks for the laughs, Carsten!

 

There is an IR leak and a filter fix. Great standards.

[R10dreamer]

Pandora's box has officially been opened.

[msr]

For Leica to never, EVER, promote a camera and at the same time tell us we can't see images from it.

 

It's all about the photographs Leica!

[think]

Sean Reid has a slightly different proposal which addresses the same issues -- managing the most frequent non-film parameters without having to use the LCD. Check his first M8 review. He says that he had begun discussing these with Leica, and had gotten some traction (before the current issues got to the top of the stack). Can you compare your ideas with his and comment on the differences?

 

scott

 

Unfortunately, Scott, I buy new equipment so rarely that a paid review site holds little value for me. I therefor haven't read Sean's review, though I do value his commentary and opinions on the matter expressed here and elsewhere. The M8 review had me on the verge of subscribing...I still might.

 

If you can paraphrase or quote his concept, I'd be more than happy to compare the two.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

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Hallo,

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