farnz Posted November 9, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1. Take a sheet of clean, white paper. 2. Add one drop of black ink 3. The black ink represents the M8's bugs: magenta/black, green blobs, banding 4. The white paper represents the M8's good points: continuation of the M series lineage, 1/250 flash synch, great feel to the camera, no vignetting, great bundled software, works with nearly all existing M lenses, excellent build quality, excellent noise performance at higher ISO's, excellent viewfinder, typically unobstrusive, 1/8000 shutter speed, staggering detail in the images, that indefinable Leica 'glow' in images ... (and I feel sure that others who've received their M8 could add to this list.) The good news is that no matter how you look at it there is so much more white paper than black ink. I am not down-playing people's concerns but please let's keep a sense of proportion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 Hi farnz, Take a look here M8: some good news. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
johnbuckley Posted November 9, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 9, 2006 Pete - thank you for this. I am here as the buffer between your post and the flames that will follow. But I agree with you, and the thoughtful posts from earlier today urging people to breathe deep... not hyperventilate, etc. I have had the M8 since Monday night. I've noticed two problems -- a battery that unexpectedly died on me, and last night, I took a picture indoors of my wife's black synthetic-material rain jacket, and yep, it came out magenta. But the joy of being able to use my M lenses on a digital camera (I don't have an RD-1) was pure joy. Haven't posted photos yet, but I will after the weekend, when I can spend some time out of doors, in daylight, taking the kind of pictures I take. I completely understand the frustration of professional photographers, and especially wedding photographers. These problems must be fixed and they will be. They have to be because Leica is playing for its life. For a moment there, with the sheer unmitigated joy expressed by people awaiting their cameras, everything seemed sunny. But everything's not dark. The M8 is that white sheet of paper, and the black dot is significant, but not all encompassing. I completely understand people holding off of their purchase til the thing is perfect. But some perspective is needed, and you've offered it. We've waited a long time for the M8. It arrived with some flaws. But it arrived. And it will, we are confident, get fixed. Meantime, for those who have one, go take pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted November 9, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 9, 2006 Well said! John, I am happy to join you on the 'buffer line" :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted November 9, 2006 Thanks, John, and my M8 stays on order. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 9, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 9, 2006 pete .. are u serious with what u say... oh let me explain... leica m8 is the only small camera (about 35mm format size) im gonna buy... im seroius... i dont like to photograph with DSLR cameras, and M cameras is my way of doing photos (at least with small cameras). so, no m8 , then for me no small digi camera at all...... im really serious about... for most of my proffesional work i can live without small digi camera anyway.. any way im with medium format, and even with medium i have to wait a very long time cause the camera i want is not fully developed product as yet... for my personal work i do mostly b/w photos and here im real snob - b/w for me is only film, so my mp (and other film cameras but mp especially) will work just as it worked recent two years or so... about yoru example with white paper and black ink... ok, here is my analogy..... there is a boat.. big boat, big surface, but there is a little hole in it... just a little hole... what will happen ???? now note.... i really dont like whats going on here... i dont like the idea that leica releases a product with problems and no one in tests saw it on no one reprted it... i dont like the way like behaves in terms of public relations........ but ........ im full of hopes that leica will do what one should expect from leica... no bugs and more care and attention to their customers ...... my georgian temperament word :-)).... after i will sort out everything about the medium format digi stuff, and when everything will be setteld with leica M-digi (which i beleive will be), it is my word that i will have one even if i dont need it so desperatly... but pete - be realistic.. what happened recently is not like white paper, it is more like boat and hole in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidada Posted November 9, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 9, 2006 Hello, even though my M8 out of the box exhibited banding and the purple blacks, I took it out today for some street shots and converted them from Raw with C1 (much better than the PS plug in) They looked so good I printed them on my epson 9800 at 30 x40 and they are stunning, I used a CV 35 1.7 , these are the best looking digital camera prints outside of large format I have seen, superb color rendering with a very wide color gamut no need for sharpening and a film like tone. So despite the problems (and they are significant) this is a keeper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted November 9, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree, Well Said. And I have put myself back on the list for the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted November 9, 2006 but pete - be realistic.. what happened recently is not like white paper, it is more like boat and hole in it. Vic, Sorry that you see it that way and I understand your viewpoint (but I won't be tempted into the famous glass half-full, glass half-empty analogy) but I hope that Leica finds a bung for your boat very soon. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 9, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 9, 2006 I have had the M8 since Monday night. I've noticed two problems -- a battery that unexpectedly died on me, and last night, I took a picture indoors of my wife's black synthetic-material rain jacket, and yep, it came out magenta. I understand that the first 3 cycles of the battery or so, the life is not what it should be. Keep charing it fully, and running it down, and eventually it will stabilise. Hopefully that is all it was. I have two batteries, just in case. About the red-cast, what about a B+W 486 filter for now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted November 9, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 9, 2006 Or look at the positive-- If M8 owners start publishing their photos of Magenta tuxes and the like, maybe we will start a new fashion trend: "Hey, Britney's beau was in magenta--I saw it in the magazine, and I want to be like him!" Never sell short the power of a Leica to change the world. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 9, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 9, 2006 pete ... i also understand your point of view.... but there is one thing... what i hear now is the change in the tone and mood towards leica... leica made no steps so far. this means customers lost the game if this mood will continue. in long run, what i can anlyze at the moment is that if customers lost the game now, then in long run, leica will lost the game all in all. why.. cause it will be talking to customers who close their eyes too soon on the problems that leica makes. very soon, in digital arena, leica will talk busness mainly to the customers that are ready to "lose the game"... there will be no gane in reputation and maybe not even gane in quality without pressure on leica from customers. as for less sentimentalic customers simply will not get into the leica... i dont speack here as prophet.. not at all... i just give one of the scenarios... in other words.. leica reputation and brand is that of film cameras and lenses... but now we talk about digital arena.. and here they simply failed in their debute... they need to rebuild the reputation... a changing mood of loyal and disapointing existing customers of m8 will not change the reputation... it may only make it worst if some action is not taken by leica, and that includes PR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 9, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 9, 2006 ah.. just want to repeat it again so that everybody will be sure... i love leica.... and i want leica to succed.. really want it and i will also get the m8 very soon... iim just trying to see the picture without sentiments, without excuses... the market place is cruel sometimes.. beyound this forum it is much more cruel... :-)))) ha ha HC... u say that get the m8 as soon as u can before they fix it and bring the new fashion photography to the world :-))))))))))))))))))) this is a nice way to see at it :-))) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted November 9, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 9, 2006 I understand that the first 3 cycles of the battery or so, the life is not what it should be. Keep charing it fully, and running it down, and eventually it will stabilise. Hopefully that is all it was. I have two batteries, just in case. About the red-cast, what about a B+W 486 filter for now? Carsten - I am hoping that's exactly what it is... that by the fourth charge I will have a) 1200 pictures taken ;-), and a fully functional battery. Now, there is one interesting byproduct of the IR discussion over the past few days -- there are no B+W 486 filters to be had! Been trying to find one all day! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 9, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 9, 2006 John same deal with the DMR batteries , get through a couple cycles to condition it than see if there is still a issue. I doubt there is after that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted November 9, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 9, 2006 pete ... i also understand your point of view.... in other words.. leica reputation and brand is that of film cameras and lenses... but now we talk about digital arena.. and here they simply failed in their debute... PR That's garbage. They failed in their debut??? Hey, go to opening night, heck, go to opening WEEK of a play and most likely there will be flubs and missed calls and slow set changes. Does that mean the play is bad? Of course not. Porsche had a bunch of manifolds crack on the 944 Turbo before they got the thermal expansion problem fixed. Did that make the 944 Turbo a bad car? You ever make mistakes? Geex, what perfect people we have here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted November 9, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 9, 2006 I understand that the first 3 cycles of the battery or so, the life is not what it should be. Keep charing it fully, and running it down, and eventually it will stabilise. Hopefully that is all it was. I have two batteries, just in case. About the red-cast, what about a B+W 486 filter for now? Remember that you will need more than one diameter of filters if you have more than one lens. The promise of the M8 was the possible elimination of some of my costly filters (all B+W, Leica or Heliopan.) Now you'e asking us to buy and use more filters just so this bleedin' digital camera can record colors correctly? Whoa! Where's Leica official answer? My M8 is on the UPS truck that's due here any minute. I may not be home today to receive it... -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainer viertlböck Posted November 9, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 9, 2006 this example with the white paper and the black little ink drop is nice. you should tell to the promo departement of other hi-tech companies, as the NASA, that just a little cheap heath protecter caused the last space shuttle to disappear. but everything else worked perfect. or if just one wheel of a car breaks at the motoway. no problem so far, its less than 1% of the car which dont work properly. you still can drive with 99% of the speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 9, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 9, 2006 Victor has nailed it for me. If you go to the SOME THOUGHTS thread you will see there is a solution to the issue. Multicoating the glass IR filter, which would keep it 0.5mm thick. We need to press for this with all our might. If we dont leica will do just what Victor says, force use to use IR filters on the lenses and change nothing inside. They must change the characteristics of that IR filter. Then we can think of the banding and the rest. The M8 did fail its debut, it is a joke that a 5000$ pro-tool needs a special filter to photographer your wife's coat. It is not wondeful, just POTENTIALLY wonderful. If we don't push hard enough, that potential might never get fully realised. PS the 944 Porsche was nothing special, even after the fix. i expect much more from the M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted November 9, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 9, 2006 Victor has nailed it for me. If you go to the SOME THOUGHTS thread you will see there is a solution to the issue. Multicoating the glass IR filter, which would keep it 0.5mm thick. We need to press for this with all our might. If we dont leica will do just what Victor says, force use to use IR filters on the lenses and change nothing inside. They must change the characteristics of that IR filter. Then we can think of the banding and the rest. The M8 did fail its debut, it is a joke that a 5000$ pro-tool needs a special filter to photographer your wife's coat. It is not wondeful, just POTENTIALLY wonderful. If we don't push hard enough, that potential might never get fully realised. PS the 944 Porsche was nothing special, even after the fix. i expect much more from the M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blovitch Posted November 9, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 9, 2006 Its a lovely idea...All that white paper and just a tiny little blob of problems.... I felt so good about that notion, I decided to use the M8 at a Wedding this weekend... I have also added the following to an email I just sent to a couple of Wedding Clients. Because I am fortunate enough to be one of very few UK photoraphers now using one of the latest, most expensive, and superb digital cameras that money can buy from LEICA please can you ask your guests to refrain from wearing dark coloured synthetic clothes at your Wedding. Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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