msr Posted November 9, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Has anyone heard if Leica will be offering a B&W M-camera in the near future? And if so, could it conceivably cost less than the current M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 Hi msr, Take a look here A Black & White M8 or M9?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest chris_h Posted November 9, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 9, 2006 Why !?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted November 9, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 9, 2006 Has anyone heard if Leica will be offering a B&W M-camera in the near future? And if so, could it conceivably cost less than the current M8? No one has developed a sensor, nor will they, that "sees" only b&w. The conversions are always done after the fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_mclean Posted November 9, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 9, 2006 Hi Brent, I think you've got this one wrong. ALL sensors ONLY see B&W... or at least the presence of photons of energy equal to or larger than the semi-conductor band gap... or not. In the case of most digital cameras, this is from nIR wavelengths through visible and into UV... So these sensors are only capable of a 'B&W' image... measuring the total number of all photons of enough energy (ie all colours) to trigger an electrical response. Colour is selectivity is an add-on. A filter area is placed over the pixels. The array is made up of R,G nad B transmitting filters. This is the bayer filter. Now, only a slect range of wavelengths is allowed to trigger an electrical response at a particular pixel site. The colour selectivity of a particular pixel is governed by the bayer filter which selects whether to transmit one of R, G or B photons onto the sensor below. The nIR is usually filtered out up stream by the anti-aliasing filter. (but not very effectively by the M8 0.5mm glass filter) The processing algorithms then assume that no other photon colours/wavelengths/energies triggered a response at that particular site. As soon as other, non-anticipated, wavelengths break through, then the alogorithm fails. Whether that is catastrophic or not is a question of degree and varies from one situation to another. So, remove the bayer filter and you get a 'B&W' camera... which also responds to nIR and UV as well as VIS light... so some degree of filtration/wavelength selectivity is still required. But, in principle, the sharpness would be even greater because less light scattering is created by fewer glass interfaces. A dedicated B&W M could be a stunning camera. So, already we're discussing the first limted edition digital M? ;-) Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 9, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 9, 2006 Why !?!? Because I want one and I wanna be a Leica freak its all there in black and white Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils-advocate Posted November 9, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 9, 2006 No one has developed a sensor, nor will they, that "sees" only b&w. The conversions are always done after the fact. Actually, relieved of its Bayer matrix (which averages clusters of adjacent R,G and B filtered pixels), a digital sensor can produce much higher true resolution, and some wonderful results. The Kodak DCS 760M was an excellent B&W only camera. I believe Pete Meyers did his high-end fine-art work on this 6MP camera for quite a while More recently, Megavision produced the E14, which is a 16Mp dedicated B&W back for MF cameras. I've heard it produces staggeringly fine results. Personally, I would be at the very front of the line for a B&W Leica M. The effective resolution would be well into the medium-format range, and Leica's optics are perfectly suited to deliver the raw-image for such a sensor. Once all the excitment and angst over the M8 settles down, they might seriously consider it. They would sell a surprising number, I think, since a good percentage of the Leica-users I know shoot principally in B&W. - N. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted November 9, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Personally, I would be at the very front of the line for a B&W Leica M. The effective resolution would be well into the medium-format range, and Leica's optics are perfectly suited to deliver the raw-image for such a sensor. . Count me in. It would be a perfect camera for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbesz Posted November 9, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 9, 2006 Funny thing about this topic. While visiting Germany in September, I did hear a rumour about the possibility of a future B&W body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
msr Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share #9 Posted November 10, 2006 Funny thing about this topic. While visiting Germany in September, I did hear a rumour about the possibility of a future B&W body. Was there a timeline attached to those rumours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbesz Posted November 10, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 10, 2006 Was there a timeline attached to those rumours? Rumours are not that precise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils-advocate Posted November 10, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 10, 2006 I'll bet money we will see a dedicated B&W digital-M. Whether it's two years from now or ten years from now remains to be seen Leica has made it's fortune over the last decade by turning out a great variety of cameras. I can't see why they wouldn't continue on that course. There will be a .85x model, a blue lizard-skin limited edition, and maybe even one with a winding lever for the retro-crowd To say nothing of the inevitable 16 or 18MP M9. Eventually. The pace of digital innovation has conditioned us to want the next greated thing, like, RIGHT NOW! Leica hasn't got the capital to turn-around a new model ever five months, but they will move on to the "next" thing as soon as they clean up the IR and streaking mess, you can count on that. In the meantime, we might as well just shoot and enjoy what we have. After all, who wouldn't have given their eye-teeth for anything resembling the M8 only six or eight months ago? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 10, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 10, 2006 Actually, relieved of its Bayer matrix (which averages clusters of adjacent R,G and B filtered pixels), a digital sensor can produce much higher true resolution, and some wonderful results. The Kodak DCS 760M was an excellent B&W only camera. I believe Pete Meyers did his high-end fine-art work on this 6MP camera for quite a while More recently, Megavision produced the E14, which is a 16Mp dedicated B&W back for MF cameras. I've heard it produces staggeringly fine results. Personally, I would be at the very front of the line for a B&W Leica M. The effective resolution would be well into the medium-format range, and Leica's optics are perfectly suited to deliver the raw-image for such a sensor. Once all the excitment and angst over the M8 settles down, they might seriously consider it. They would sell a surprising number, I think, since a good percentage of the Leica-users I know shoot principally in B&W. - N. I agree. It would be a good idea although I don't think it would be much less expensive than the M8. I myself use color only when needed for commercial work and for a limited amount of my personal work. The M8 is primarily a B&W camera for me already (and not because of the magenta thing). Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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