teemulaine Posted June 19, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 19, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I tried to search through this forum and couldn't find a clear answer: My Leica M8 will arrive soon and I currently have 15mm Heliar, 35mm Summilux (v3), 50mm Summilux (first M-mount design, can't wait to see how this works with digital body) and uncoated 50mm Elmar from 30's. I know that I'll get the estimated aperture value etc. information to the EXIF data when the lens is coded, but that's not necessary for me. So my question is following: Should I have these lenses and adapters coded and what are the benefits if I'm using only RAW from image quality point of view? My understanding is that the RAW file from M8 is similar as with other cameras and it is really a RAW data output directly from the sensor. So I guess that the vingetting etc. corrections are not applied to the RAW file and I have to do it manually in Lightroom? Thanks for your help in clarifying this issue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 Hi teemulaine, Take a look here Lens coding for M8 - benefits when shooting RAW?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 19, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 19, 2009 No -no camera produces sensor data as a RAW file. All will have some sort of manipulation to them before the RAW file is written - noise reduction, corrections, etc. In the case of the M8, the main manipulations as far as the user is concerned are the ones that are determined by the lens code - vignetting correction, correction for the use of an IR filter, notably colour shift and cyan drift. So it makes a lot of difference, especially on wide angles where the corrections are the most pronounced. On a side note - you will need the IR filters. If you are thinking of correcting IR contamination in postprocessing -forget it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemulaine Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted June 19, 2009 Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I've already ordered Heliopan UV/IR filters for all lenses except the Elmar, so the IR issues should be solved with those. And I also ordered Heliopan's 39mm IR filter so that I can try some IR photography with at least the 35mm 'cron (will post results)! I also have to check how the 15mm Heliar handles IR as I haven't checked if it has the "hot spot" etc. I'm surprised about the noise reduction part, so are you sure that this is also applied to the RAW file and not only for the JPEG? And: what are your opinions about coding 35mm and 50mm lenses? My understanding is that the cyan/magenta cast and vingetting are not a big problem for those and it is more visible with the 15mm Heliar of which I can say that according to the sample pictures the results look quite awful without coding... edit: And btw I know about the HW manipulation which is done when RAW data is processed to the DNG and I'm trying to figure out what is done with the HW and which parts of processing are left for the JPEG engine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe D. Posted June 19, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 19, 2009 Terve! My Leica M8 will arrive soon and I currently have 15mm Heliar, 35mm Summilux (v3), 50mm Summilux (first M-mount design, can't wait to see how this works with digital body) and uncoated 50mm Elmar from 30's.(...) Should I have these lenses and adapters codedNone of those lenses have to be necessary coded.BTW your Summilux 35 can't be (as in Leica Camera AG - Service - M lens coding), be also careful, some early made lens can't be used on the M8. Lenses of focal lenght of 28mm and down should be. The Lux 50 v.1 make nice pictures on the M8, but get an UV/IR (E43) for it. (have your Lux 35 a filter size of E41 or Series 7 ?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 19, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 19, 2009 The 50mm should be ok without coding, the 35mm is borderline. I have a 35mm pre-ASPH Summilux that Leica can't code and it looks ok to me. I'd try it uncoded first and see if you are happy with the results - assuming you don't want it coding for other reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 19, 2009 Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I've already ordered Heliopan UV/IR filters for all lenses except the Elmar, so the IR issues should be solved with those. And I also ordered Heliopan's 39mm IR filter so that I can try some IR photography with at least the 35mm 'cron (will post results)! I also have to check how the 15mm Heliar handles IR as I haven't checked if it has the "hot spot" etc. I'm surprised about the noise reduction part, so are you sure that this is also applied to the RAW file and not only for the JPEG? And: what are your opinions about coding 35mm and 50mm lenses? My understanding is that the cyan/magenta cast and vingetting are not a big problem for those and it is more visible with the 15mm Heliar of which I can say that according to the sample pictures the results look quite awful without coding... edit: And btw I know about the HW manipulation which is done when RAW data is processed to the DNG and I'm trying to figure out what is done with the HW and which parts of processing are left for the JPEG engine It is even worse -for instance a Cmos sensor has circuitry on the sensor itself, which produces the initial noise-reduction, as the Cmos as a sensor is basically more noisy thatn a CCD. Yes, there is a whole lot going on before the data reaches the memory card.... The Jpeg engine is a whole different story. Basically the camera does the same as you do in Photoshop - but with limited resources. Imo the coding is needed for all lenses shorter than 35 mm, as posted above. Whether to code a 35 or not depends, I think, on the lens. I used to have a Nokton 35/1.2 where I did not see any probleme at all without coding, others, with other lenses, have reported light cyan drift and vignetting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted June 19, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 19, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would say the only lens you have that is in need of coding is your 15mm Heliar and there is no exact Leica lens code for it... Before you go the coding route you may check out Sandy McGuffog's devignetting application called CornerFix Download CornerFix 1.0.0.0 - Free and open source devignetting application for Leica M8 digital cameras - Softpedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemulaine Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted June 19, 2009 Ah, sorry. I meant 35mm 'cron v3... Typing after few beers Anyhow, thanks for the advice! I'll definitely have to try to code the adapter to which my 15mm is attached as WATE (as was instructed somewhere) and see if that works out ok. And I'll see how the 35mm performs without coding and make the decision after that I have to say that I'm quite excited to see how my lenses perform on digital body. So far I've been really happy with the 15mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses with film and I believe that I'll be as happy with their performance with M8. It is highly likely though that I'll have to buy e.g. later 50mm 'cron or perhaps 50mm Zeiss Planar or Sonnar for wide open photography as the 50mm 'lux is a bit soft until stopped down to f2.8, but the soft look is awesome for e.g. portraits. Buying M8 was not too hard decision as I'm planning to save my Canon equipment for high ISO and macro work, but it is also highly possible that I'll get rid of the Canon gear at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted June 19, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 19, 2009 I would say the only lens you have that is in need on coding is your 15mm Heliar and there is no exact Leica lens code for it... Before you go the coding route you may check out Sandy McGuffog's devignetting application called CornerFix Download CornerFix 1.0.0.0 - Free and open source devignetting application for Leica M8 digital cameras - Softpedia I know some people have coded the CV15 (new M-mount) as the Tri Elmar but some, like me, have coded it as a 21 Elmarit. There is definitely a difference before and after coding, on the vignetting, I noticed. Also, from what I can see, cyan shifts are more pronounced with the UV/IR filter (B+W 486) so when I don't absolutely have to, I use the lens without the filter, which is quite often in my case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe D. Posted June 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 19, 2009 Moi taas, It is highly likely though that I'll have to buy e.g. later 50mm 'cron or perhaps 50mm Zeiss Planar or Sonnar for wide open photography as the 50mm 'lux is a bit soft until stopped down to f2.8 The Sonnar is somewhat similar to the Summilux v.1, in my eyes. That's why i sold the Sonnar ZM back away and kept the Summilux. On M8, Summilux Asph is the answer. (imo, bien sûr) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemulaine Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted July 17, 2009 Yay. I FINALLY got my M8... Took almost a month until it arrived and during that time I decided that I'll sell my Canon gear... And I have to say that I don't regret this decision at all, I haven't taken my Canon gear anywhere except on work assignments during past year and now M8 follows me anywhere I go. Unfortunately I haven't yet received my UV/IR filters I ordered three weeks ago, so it's all going to be B&W until that. And so far I'm quite pleased of the results: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/92472-turku-17-7-2009-a.html I'll post more after weekend. Tomorrow is going to be my first work assignment with M8. It's a party on a boat which will travel around archipelago of Turku, so I expect that it's going to be a magenta mayhem... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemulaine Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted July 20, 2009 Ok, first assignment with M8 was done and the results are even better than I expected (from the magenta cast point of view): Royal Summer Cruise 2009 Sun was shining from quite low angle, so there was not too much IR / UV contamination: 083.jpg , luckily people were also wearing other than black fabrics, so the color cast doesn't look that bad. Now I'll just have to wait until my filters arrive and then I'll have to start thinking about coding at least the 15mm and 21mm CV lenses and see how the results will look like. Or maybe I'll just order Milich adapters... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 20, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 20, 2009 teemulaine, Looks like you did well with the M on your vacation. I never realized how much I love Amazon, here we get filters overnight next morning... can't believe how long you have to wait for stuff in Finland. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpstjp Posted July 20, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 20, 2009 Buying M8 was not too hard decision as I'm planning to save my Canon equipment for high ISO and macro work, but it is also highly possible that I'll get rid of the Canon gear at some point. I'm sure you've already researched it but with a Visoflex III and the Leica bellows II you can use the M8 for your macro work as well. dpstjp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemulaine Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted July 21, 2009 I'm sure you've already researched it but with a Visoflex III and the Leica bellows II you can use the M8 for your macro work as well. dpstjp Yup, that's why I ended up selling my Canon gear. Now I'll have to hunt for Visoflex teemulaine,Looks like you did well with the M on your vacation. I never realized how much I love Amazon, here we get filters overnight next morning... can't believe how long you have to wait for stuff in Finland. . Yeah, there's not too many M8's in Finland so there aren't too many companies which have UV/IR filters in stock. So basically my filter dealer has to order the filters directly from Heliopan and I'm not sure what is their stock status... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 21, 2009 Why don't you order from Germany? For Leica: Meister Camera, for B&W: Foto Huppert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemulaine Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted July 21, 2009 Why don't you order from Germany?For Leica: Meister Camera, for B&W: Foto Huppert Well, I try to support my local dealers for as long as they're still selling things. It's not too expensive to order things from Germany (shipping costs are maybe 20 euros for a package), but way too many Finnish stores have shut down during past few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 21, 2009 Yes, that is fine. But it seems they are not selling filters right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampguy Posted July 23, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 23, 2009 I wouldn't code anything longer than a 24. Also try with and without filters. If shooting b/w, you may prefer w/o, definitely less flare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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