Magenta? treat like moire

[grober]

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We all appreciate your efforts here but there are those of us who don't like the idea of spending $5K to acquire the camera we've all been waiting for and then be told to add another grand to make it do something like a simple $300 point-n-shoot camera: failthfully record colors as they appear to the human eye.

 

My disappointment about this M8 IR problem has only increased in the past day. I'm really quite steamed about it now.

 

-g

[imported_peter_m]

I think the point of this is to show the magenta is easily corrected with common software, to me that would indicate that it also could be achieved with a firmware upgrade.

 

Peter

[Peter41951]

Peter, I agree. It should be easy to fix with a firmware upgrade; tweakings in PS are only a temporary solution, not the solution.

[abrewer]

I'm going to pin this as a sticky for awhile to insure everyone gets a chance to see what's possible in this regard.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks Allan , i really have not got a chance to read this yet and looking forward to it.

[gogopix]

Thanks Allen,

 

I think what Peter and I have been able to do quickly points to a simple solution that Leica will surely provide, and without cost.

 

.

[Peter41951]

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One last one I just had to have a go at:

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[gogopix]

Peter, great example

 

We should repeat what is going on here

 

PS>IMAGE>ADJUSTMENT>REPLACE COLOR> eyedrop the magenta> fuzziness 130-140>saturation to ZERO

 

DONE

 

maybe a little playing for the perfectionists, but do this BEFORE other adjustments for WB etc since you want the neutral areas neutral (will not affect anything else

 

regards

[abrewer]

Victor, Peter, you guys don't know how much we all appreciate your showing the way on this. It at least puts potential buyers into a holding pattern until the issues can be resolved.

 

It's not a fix but it's a damn sight better than red black velvet in broad daylight!

 

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[kidigital]

Nice job, Victor. Thanks Peter. Good stuff.

[jrgeoffrion]

I'm going to pin this as a sticky for awhile to insure everyone gets a chance to see what's possible in this regard.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

 

Well, since this is a sticky, I'll weight in. I've processed over 200,000 raw files from a D1x, D2x, 10D, 5D, 1D Mark II, 1Ds, 1Ds Mark II, and DMRs.

 

Someone please post a sample with the black that creates the problem (by turning magenta) AND with a "real" object that is the approximate magenta -- you'll see that this is not a work around. The IR is a function of the IR reflectivity not of the (visible) "color" reflectivity. Hence, different materials, in different conditions will behave differently. This is NOT an overall color shift.

[robertwright]

Replace color is indeed a powerful tool but the problem is that black is simply not a desaturated color, black has subtle tones that are getting crushed down to even pixel values by this workaround.

In the studio I use replace color usually as a last resort when we cannot get accurate color out of a digital capture. It works about 50% of the time, the other 50% it introduces its own problems. For example, this all depends on the fuzziness setting to select the magenta-what of other areas that are indeed magenta? Now you have to do this on a layer mask to really have control. Also, it is often extremely obvious in prints where areas have been desaturated, they lack the nuance of the rest of the print and any color reflections in the black material that were not magenta are also getting crushed to even pixel values.

 

It's a gross workaround at best, time-consuming, inaccurate, and obviously unnecessary if the IR was controlled in the first place. Just like we all used to repeat, better to get it in-camera, especially when it comes to filtration. For example, shooting tungsten unfiltered always results in flat images on film because the film is gasping for exposure in the blue. This didn't change with digital-tungsten WB in post simply boosts the blue channel and results in more noise-better to have put the 80A on the lens in the first place.

 

It is ironic that the cadre of leica purists who insist that a quote "filter" is not befitting the excellent optics in terms of IR filtering would also advocate filtering tungsten on camera if we were still shooting film. From the purist point of view, WB'ing tungsten on RAW files is heresy because it elevates noise.

 

The workaround is NOT replace color, it is an IR filter and move on.

[Peter41951]

I do agree with the two previous posts; the "replace colour" is a temporary solution until Leica solve the problem. In the meantime will it not allow owners to rescue shots?

[bsmith]

Peter, great example

 

We should repeat what is going on here

 

PS>IMAGE>ADJUSTMENT>REPLACE COLOR> eyedrop the magenta> fuzziness 130-140>saturation to ZERO

 

DONE

 

maybe a little playing for the perfectionists, but do this BEFORE other adjustments for WB etc since you want the neutral areas neutral (will not affect anything else)

 

 

You gotta be kidding ! the "fix" ok for 72dpi use, ridiculous for anything else! If you want to spend 30 minutes masking every black cloth area, ok , but to "just click on the magenta is a joke. Do you realize how much other legitimate magenta data your losing ???

 

Let's get the camera fixed so it reproduces as well as a $300 p&S

[gogopix]

...those who think a solution will work are not always right,

but those who think it won't, are!

 

From some of the above comments, its seems some do not understand how replace color works.

 

The magenta here is in a narrow band of the 65,000 odd colors on the screen.Magenta mixed in ANY others are not touched.

 

Sure there will be differences, but one producess false colors every time one changes white balnace, adjusts curves, works channels etc.

 

but, hey, those who think a $300 P&S is better just saved $4400. :-)

[Guest stevenrk]

.

 

but, hey, those who think a $300 P&S is better just saved $4400. :-)

 

And Victor you can buy a good handful of Leica M glass with what you've saved Best, Steven

[J_Brittenson]

One last one I just had to have a go at:

I still see it around the edges, as well as elsewhere where you missed it. The bush in the background looks like it's copied and pasted from a different image. Your example illustrates very nicely the extreme amount of work involved in producing quality masks and matching tonal scales. In real-world images (not just midday snapshots), you also get lots of mixed subtle hues picked up from reflections and illuminants, these are critical to the ambiance of an image and exceedingly difficult to restore manually. It's just not feasible to work like this except to save a very occasional irreplaceable shot. If it's more than very occasional it's time to go look for tools more suited for the conditions. This kind of restoration is more work even than making quality scans of film, including careful dusting, cleaning, mounting of originals, as well as careful post-scan spotting.

[robertwright]

I agree, the black in the shots of the leica is just dead. It looks like what handcoloring used to look like on black and white prints.

 

But anyone is welome to work in this manner.

[gogopix]

well, I would certainly like to see how the filters work.If they do ot degrade the image, and prevents the magenta, I am all or it.

 

Guy, did you have a chance to try the filters? Anyone?

 

The first examples were not promising.

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[fotografr]

Victor--Excellent workaround. Thanks for the tip on this. I think it will be an excellent way to deal with the magenta until Leica have the real fix.