M8 Bashing

[jfaier]

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Well, i have been reading the posts, I received my M8 yesterday (Chrome of course!), and I am finding all this camera bashing, so disappointing. It's only okay for the bashing to occur between whether or not we like black vs chrome. Seriously, the camera shipped on time - or is shipping on time - I am sure the company is overwhelmed with many logictics and operational considerations - not to mention serious R&D thought to address the many concerns raised. Not that the concerns are not trivial but solutions take time. We all know with technology you have to get to market and resolve issues in market, and not try and hatch the perfect product - Apple knows this, as do others. We are not talking about a conglomerate the size of Canon. So, I think we may need to be patient and see how this plays out. Hopefully we are not talkign about another Kodak SLR/n or 14n - with terrible magenta fringing, and the disappointments of that cam -- even given consideration it was an early all full-sensor device. My M8 is beautiful - the lenses produce that beautiful Leica imprint - that sublime quality we all want. Sure, my 1Ds MK II has never experienced many of the same issues described, but the M8 offers its own special characteristics. I love how I can pack up a bunch of lenses a camera, into a relatively small backback, and away I go. I don't mean to discount everyone's concerns, but we do need a sense of perspective given the significant development Leica has put forth. Plus, bad rumoring is bad for all of us. Let's not kill the M8 before it has a chance to walk. Okay, I'll get off my soap box. Just my $.02

[frc]

You're right John, concern it just but bashing, no.

Although there are some people bashing, most of the comments are showing concern.

Even humour, a poem and my purple cow are part of the discussion.

I must say that I do understand that a number of people have a feeling of anger after bying the camera and discovering all these bugs.

Not every one has the sense of humour to accept it with a smile.

Disappointment is what I feel about these troubles, I will not accept my pre ordered M8 before I'm certain the failures have been solved.

 

 

No more bashing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Fr.

[R10dreamer]

I certainly agree John. Having problems with new technology is to be expected. Absolutely. The key here and it is a very very important key, is how Leica handles the situation. For the most part, everyone on this board loves Leica cameras and/or lenses. No one here wanted problems with their M8. Certainly not. But that said, Leica is running on a very slippery slope now if they don't fix these issues very quickly. If the lovers of Leica are attacking Leica what in the world is the competition going to do? And as I stated in another thread; if Leica goes down we all go down (photographically speaking) with them.

[fotografr]

I don't see this as M8 bashing. What I see, hear and feel is utter shock and disappointment. If anything, the people on this forum have been biting their lips. After all, we are the Leica affectionados. We love the company and their products. That's why we're here. The problem is that we have come to expect technical and mechanical perfection (MP) from Leica. This has always been the hallmark of the company. To find out now that the M8 has very serious flaws right out of the box is quite unsettling and there are no excuses for it. I have a $500 Lumix LX-1 that has worked perfectly from the day I took it out of the box. No banding, no magenta cast, no shut downs with fresh batteries. In the past 10 years I've owned a dozen different digital cameras and NONE of them have had problems like this.

 

I, and most others here, fully expect that Leica will solve these issues. But when and how? Will all the M8s have to go back to Solms? If so, for how long? Questions linger about why the camera was released without being fully tested.

 

I came, just minutes ago, from my dealer and had a new chrome M8 in my hands. If anybody is interested, you can buy it right now from The Camera Company, Madison, Wisconsin. There is no list. Personally, I'm a little too stunned by these revelations to even consider it right now. Earlier today, I put my order for a black M8 on hold until there is a fix from Leica. That was the most painful professional equipment decision I've ever made. I've been looking forward to having the M8 for the last 2 years--before it even had a name. So, bashing? No. Major disappointment? Big time.

[M'Ate]

Although my M8 is on order and not recieved, let me share with you what has take the anxiety out of it for me after playing with the M8 at a sales demo yesterday where I shot 65 frames with the new body - my lovely Leica MP. It's a joy to own and use.

 

The M8 will be nearly as good one day soon and we'll treasure all Leica products including the M8. Situation is a pain, but pain fades and then there's the rest of your days.

 

Don't have to buy it now, so don't bash it.

[Guest Bernd Banken]

[ if Leica goes down we all go down (photographically speaking) with them.

 

Haha, what a nonsence -

 

good fotographers are able to make stunning shots with Canon or Nikon- sorry that these bodies are only available in black - not magenta:D

 

Bernd

[miami91]

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Such apologists we have in our ranks! I wonder just how motivated Leica will be to provide a timely fix when some of you are falling all over yourselves to proffer up excuses for them. Personally, I think a mass of order cancellations would provide them with better impetus to deliver a quick resolution. Of course, at this point there seems to be such a myriad of problems (streaking, green blobs, power problems, etc.) that its doubtful one fix will be enough.

 

Maybe we should consider ourselves fortunate that most of Leica's digital offerings are indeed "rebadged Panasonics". At least they function out of the box! Perhaps Leica eliminated the QA department in one of their many recent restructurings (and if they didn't, they ought to sack them now).

 

And lest you accuse me of being a "basher", I own five cameras, all Leicas (along with a spotting scope, binoculars). I've poured many thousands into the company's coffers the past few years. But I must say, this M8 is really undermining my confidence in them.

 

Respectfully,

 

Jeff.

[abrewer]

Reading these posts reminds me of my other passion: college basketball.

 

Last season was not one of the most memorable for my college team, which has historically been one of the premier schools. Fans were irate, moreso with every loss, finally culminating in the season-ender in the tourney that sent us all home grumbling about how the coach had to go, the AD should be fired, the recruiters axed....

 

 

The sun will come up tomorrow, rest assured. And Leica will find a way to satisfy, as it always has before.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[rfleica]

bashing? my impression is that most posts i have read are useful, constructive, optimistic, well argued and giving leica the benefit of the doubt. for some, the issues raised are irrelevant. for others, they hit full square into the sweet spot of the photographic style of the photographers concerned.

[hyper67]

I'll have to agree that Leica has to deliver. Leica made a mistake-it released a product way to early-in fact from what I initially recall they said they would start delivering the camera towards mid to end of November. It seems that they started delivering the camera early November, what was the rush? On hand as I said before we should wait and see - a period of great frustration - on what and when they deliver a perfect machine. If they dismiss this as just a small thing that will eventually find its own solution then its goodbye Leica for me....

[mwilliamsphotography]

I assure you I am the last to bash Leica. I have ended every post with ... Keeping the faith ... and have added ... cautiously as of late, because I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

 

The Basketball team and coach analogy is perhaps a bit flawed ... unless everyone in the community gave the coach $5,000. to produce a winner.

 

I'm putting the camera away in it's box, but not sending it back ... yet.

[abrewer]

The Basketball team and coach analogy is perhaps a bit flawed ... unless everyone in the community gave the coach $5,000. to produce a winner.

 

Oh heavens, Marc!

 

That wouldn't do any good at all!

 

You have to give the money to the player!!!

 

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I'm in the game and trying to hit a three pointer, but I have been fouled and I have 3 chances to get it right . Green Blob, Magenta Cast. Streaking.

 

I have made a lot of money from my Leica gear and will keep on supporting my image habit with Leica, so I may be upset or frustrated but i won't give up either. They will make this work

[miami91]

I'm in the game and trying to hit a three pointer, but I have been fouled and I have 3 chances to get it right . Green Blob, Magenta Cast. Streaking.

 

Guy,

 

Here's hoping you (or Leica) shoot them better than Shaquille O'Neal!!! Or, for a reference more appropriate to Phoenix, I wish you Steve Nash success.

 

Jeff.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Hang in there Guy. You know I am a staunch Leica supporter ... we've stood shoulder-to-shoulder in defense of the DMR ... and were justified in doing so.

 

However, I went down with the ship with the ill fated Contax ND that was the straw that broke Kyocera's back. That debacle cost me $15,000.+ Can't take too many hits like that

and stay in business.

 

I e-mailed my "Magenta" test to my dealer and he forwarded it on to Leica after speaking directly to them. If my test was flawed, they'll tell us why.

 

Quite frankly, I'd love to be made a fool in this case.

 

I also am not worried as much as you are about my considerable M lens investment. As my test M camera subjects show, I use film and will continue doing so quite happily.

[fotografr]

Reading these posts reminds me of my other passion: college basketball.

 

Last season was not one of the most memorable for my college team, which has historically been one of the premier schools. Fans were irate, moreso with every loss, finally culminating in the season-ender in the tourney that sent us all home grumbling about how the coach had to go, the AD should be fired, the recruiters axed....

 

 

The sun will come up tomorrow, rest assured. And Leica will find a way to satisfy, as it always has before.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

 

That's true enough, Allan, but Wisconsin will still beat Indiana twice this season. ;-}

[andym911]

I don't mean to discount everyone's concerns, but we do need a sense of perspective given the significant development Leica has put forth. Plus, bad rumoring is bad for all of us.

 

I do not see any bashing going on here.What I do see as has been mentioned, is many loyal Leica photographers extremely disappointed with the released product.Some of those photographers were and still are, looking to use the M8 proffessionally.They cannot do that with confidence hence the frustration.

 

Add to this the complete silence from Leica management 1 week, yes 1 week, after initial deliveries and you can understand why the occasional voice is raised.

I see the forum as a whole being extremely civil considering the weight of the issues, maybe (including myself) even too civil.

So to put things into perspective, yes Leica has put significant development into this product, it has taken years but appears that it will be ready soon, but today it is for many not a usable professional product.So whilst we all deal with our own disappointments and frustrations it is Leica that must come to the table and acknowledge the above and communicate the recovery plan to its loyal customers.Then the bad rumoring will stop and a more positive tone will prevail.

 

cheers

andy

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hang in there Guy. You know I am a staunch Leica supporter ... we've stood shoulder-to-shoulder in defense of the DMR ... and were justified in doing so.

 

However, I went down with the ship with the ill fated Contax ND that was the straw that broke Kyocera's back. That debacle cost me $15,000.+ Can't take too many hits like that

and stay in business.

 

I e-mailed my "Magenta" test to my dealer and he forwarded it on to Leica after speaking directly to them. If my test was flawed, they'll tell us why.

 

Quite frankly, I'd love to be made a fool in this case.

 

I also am not worried as much as you are about my considerable M lens investment. As my test M camera subjects show, I use film and will continue doing so quite happily.

 

 

Marc i wish i could say you were flawed but your not , flash does put out a lot of IR but the sun does too and it is all over the place, glad you sent that in though very good example of the issue and let's keep our fingers crossed

[alexr]

I find these attacks against "bashers" unjustified. All of us state the love for the company, we have all invested heavily in the system. So why are we accused of bashing just for pointing out the (unfortunately major) flaws?

My point is this: if i give my editor an inferior image, he will point it out. Might even stop using me. He need to run his business, right?

Leica's business is making great cameras and lenses. When they have a problem, why is it immoral to point it out to them? I would call it constructive, specially when it comes from those who love the camera and cannot wait to use it.

Leica is a camera manufacturer. Not GOD. Come on!

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[abrewer]

Alex, if you will kindly point out who has bashed you I will go edit the post right now.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan