Back into the box it goes ... : -(

[ruiespanhol]

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For me R user I fell happy because the DMR performs well and in my opinion better then Canon Eos 1D.

I look at two pictures of both M cameras and find the picture take by the R9/DMR combo better.

For thoose who like to say the R line will disapear from Leica production thys is answer for that people.

At this moment the DMR still the best digital solution from Leica and is one R camera hehehe!!!

Sorry M users but I nead to show my disagree whit some M users who post on this forum some bad opinions about R cameras something like Leica should stop making then or so on.

However I fell at same time some disgusted about this situation whit the M8.

I like the camera and think is one great product from Leica but nead more time for fine tuning the firmware.

Remenber the delay whit the DMR ...so let´s wait Leica can fix this problem.

 

Best,

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[B&W]

What many of also need to realize in Marc's test with studio storbes that there is a lot of IR light from them and also the modeling lamps, not trying to downplay it at all becuase obviously the studio lighting is not working but we have to think about your use also. Will you always run into this or will it be a issues at all. i got to thinking my one purpose for this camera is to shoot event work with a Metz , now i can put a IR block filter on the Metz and stop some of that IR from getting out to begin with. Of course there is ambient light also to deal with but as they are getting the fix ready , there maybe some things we can do to get us by. Not ideal i realize but figuring out a working solution is not a bad thought

 

It might work for you, but I will not accept anything less than perfect for 5 big ones

 

But I am sure Leica will solve the problems - they can not afford not to - and the alternative will be tragic for them and their shareholders.

[booggerg]

Newbie-question:

The sensor/electronics knows the wave lenth of the light passing through the optical system. That's why it knows what is red , green or blue ;-) Why can't you just tell the firmware that it should erase every wave length beyond 700nm? Or are there interferences with visible wave lengths?

 

The different color is recongnized by using different coloured filters. There is an IR filter on the M8, but it apparently, is ineffective. If that's the case, no firmware can fix it.

[rfleica]

i hope and believe that leica will sort the problems. i do not know when. nor how. i guess that a hardware fix is on the cards. i am grateful to this forum for highlighting the issues. i am also grateful to marc for his excellent contribution on the magenta issue (i know marc from another forum where he is also an extremely good contributor).

 

Despite being almost at the top of my dealer's list, his first deliveries come in on Friday. I will ask him to postpone mine until this gets fixed. Low light, unstreaked, good colour is what i hoped for. I already have a camera that can do good light, great colour. so, i will just wait a bit. My guess is that it won't be longer than leica can possibly manage - it must surely be easily their number one priority right now.

 

i will continue to watch these threads closely. thanks again.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Okay, back from my presentation.

 

A few additional answers for questions posed here.

 

1) Strobes causing more IR light? 2) Maybe other processing engines would work better?

 

Here's throw away street shot ... but it illustrates the "fabric theory" I think.

 

1) Daylight, the girl walking was dressed in black. Note the black cardboard box in the window is correctly rendered.

 

2) Two of the same image ... one from C-1 and the other from Adobe Camera RAW ... magenta black is still the problem

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[mwilliamsphotography]

Apparently rubber and leather are not a problem ... tires and fitings on the motorcycle, and the guy wearing a leather jacket in the background.

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[TSK]

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Marc, you're da man! I would strongly encourage Leica to put you on the list of beta testers for a M8-2.

[alexr]

Let's be honest here: we are being calm and ultra-positive about this problem only because we love the red dot.

and

This is not a little IR filter problem. This is a disaster. And the response from Leica is a disaster too.

 

Not willing to bore anyone, I respond to LADP only because he has quoted the two previous posts of mine (above) saying they are at odds with each other.

I don' think so. I do believe the problem is very worrying. Still my love of the company and faith in its abilities is shown by the fact that i still have one on order (but will only take delivery when i think it is usable).

I hope by the time mine comes these issues are resolved. If the same issues had been connected to a new Nikon-Canon i would probably have cancelled the order and looked for other products.

As regards the other comment, where the poster indicates that teething problems are common with high end Nikon-Canon too, he talks about flimsy focus rings and the like. I believe there is a big difference between a flimsy focus ring and a camera that turns black coats into magenta coats.

I respectfully believe a recall would be the correct move from Leica. But if buyers are happy do collect their M8 in spite of the problems it clearly has (at present) all the best to them. I shall wait. And waiting is not Leica bashing, Its just being cautious. I guess I am not as rich as y'all...I have to work quite a bit to make 5000$ (after tax).

[msr]

"Marc, you're da man! I would strongly encourage Leica to put you on the list of beta testers for a M8-2"

 

How about the M8-1?

[carstenw]

Anyone *repeatedly* posting the same opinion about holding back the M8 until fixed, we have heard you. Let's wait and see what happens, and give it a week or two. My M8 is in for a focusing tune-up, and I am nervous enough about having to send it in a second time for an IR filter change, thanks. I do trust in Leica, and I do want them to solve this.

[abrewer]

Once more, please refrain from calling out other members by name about something they've posted here. If you see something you think is unfair or incorrect, post the facts as you know them without personalizing the issue.

 

We've gotten close to a couple of people being flamers and I don't want to spoil the party by issuing yellow cards to anyone today.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[sinwen]

I guess it would have been better for leica to limit the gamut to something like AdobeRGB. In this concern the biggest isn't always the better.

I am convince that's where the problem stand, let see what explanation leica comes up with.

 

Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Final post I promise ... then we'll sit back and see what Leica does.

 

I wanted to absolutely confirm this for myself, because this thread was brought to Leica's attention by my dealer so I wanted to make sure, sure, sure ... and show as much of it as possible with different black materials and objects.

 

So, I walked around the house shooting stuff that was black, and most importantly my Tux using flash because like it or not, some wedding work has to be shot with flash on ocassion.

 

Here are the last three I promise ...

 

My Tux; a Mamiya 645 with Aptus 75 back & Zeiss 110/2FE and a LowPro bag ( note the different black response on different materials including metal); and my black jacket hanging on a chair back.

 

Just for an extra punch in the gut, I've discovered that my just arrived 90/2.8 doesn't focus at all, which isn't the camera's fault because the 90/2AA is fine.

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[gogopix]

Ijustposted in another thread that the P25 back I had, did the same with certain fabrics; Ihad a ballistic nylon BLUE backpack that came out alwats PURPLE!

 

I think these fabrics are like prisms or small gratings and are selecting reds (the optical guys can say, something like a crude birefringent filter?)

anyway, if you twist just right in certain lite they actually LOOK those colors.

 

So I see same with Tux lapel one type and wool worsted not causing problem.

 

This is definitely extreme, but in medicine, and maybe here, the diagnosis is the bulk of the work

now up to Leica/Kodak/Jenoptic to fix.

 

And I must throw in my vote for the well stated call for patience. On balance, for $5k it is a GEM!

[vic vic]

ok maarc.. as far as i see it the flashed toxi shows less... what do u think.. because of material or because of lighting...?

 

what is the exact lighting in the other photos with camera and jacket??

 

ah, by the way... what is that ziess 110/f2 lens on mamiya... how u put it on it... it is a lens that i know on rollei and one of the most stuning lenses actually... is it done for mamiya too or for ahsselblad??? :-))))

[mwilliamsphotography]

Vic, The Tux is an Armani made of a wool blend with a silk lapel ... more natural fibers.

 

The jacket over the chair is Polester and Acrylic ... materials not found in nature.

 

I used the Leica SF20 flash for extra light ... like I have to sometimes at a wedding ... although usually with more diffusion than used here.

 

The Mamiya 645 is just a body to hold the Leaf digital back and Hasselblad lenses ... which are mounted using a Hasselblad to Mamiya adapter. I like it because the Mamiya AFDII has very sensitive and accurate focus confirmation in the viewfinder. I can use all Hasselblad lenses from both the 500 or 200 series.

[PeterJWhite]

I'm really glad about two things. I didn't pony up $4800 for the M8. Nor did I pony up whatever the charge is for the "Pay a Fee" review service someone here offers. I can learn all I need to from posts like Marc's.

 

Did the "Pay a Fee" review have anything to say about the blacks turning into magenta issue?

 

I'll wait until Marc gives the OK before buying an M8, regardless of what the "experts" have to say about it. ;-)

[vic vic]

ok i understand about the flash and armani (although armani uses different fabrics in various designs).. no questions here.

 

one thing i do know for sure.. i know how the lowe-pro bag u have and the way it looks looks (or at least the meterial lowepro uses for those bags).. and that is really wiered... i was intrested about the lighting u had in the room when u made it.

 

ha ha. adaapter for mamiya/hasselblad.. first time i hear it.

couldnot get in full comfort with that mamiya when was photographing with leaf aptsu....

i will have to wait very long before i will get the leaf camera that im spotted on (rollei hy6 and aptus-s), so if i will need the digital meanwhile, temporary, the mamiya+leaf is only choice to me. but i had no idea that hasselblad lenses can be on it, and actaully i had no idea that the zeiss planar 110 exists for haselblad too. will ask here about adapters next time.

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[gareth_c]

I'm really glad about two things. I didn't pony up $4800 for the M8. Nor did I pony up whatever the charge is for the "Pay a Fee" review service someone here offers. I can learn all I need to from posts like Marc's.

 

Did the "Pay a Fee" review have anything to say about the blacks turning into magenta issue?

 

I'll wait until Marc gives the OK before buying an M8, regardless of what the "experts" have to say about it. ;-)

 

I have to say that I feel thats harsh. I feel secure that had any such issues come to light in the process of his testing we would have known about it.

[TSK]

... i had no idea that hasselblad lenses can be on it, and actaully i had no idea that the zeiss planar 110 exists for haselblad too. will ask here about adapters next time.

 

Vic ... there're adapters for Hasselblad lenses on Mamiya, Pentax, Nikon, Canon and etc. The best ones are the Kindais made in Japan, Fotodiox made some cheap ones and they have a website for it.