faffo99 Posted May 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys, i love you all. After a long chemistry life i sold my loved darkroom. it was a real sorrow... I'm a leica m6 b&w shooter and will always be, but i realized i didn't have enough time for darkroom, you know... the same old story. Now, here's my plan for spending the money i made from the darkroom sale: I'll still shoot Trix and develop myself, then i'll by a Nikon 5000ED to scan the negatives. And i'm also going to buy a printer, here's where i ask you to help me. Been a darkroom printer, i never got deep into inkjet printing. I've seen different threads, and topics, and discussions about it, but didn't make a real point. so i ask you which A4 printer is the best for black and white and also which inks and paper. Some suggest the Epson R2400 because the R2880 doesn't offer much more to justify the more expensive price... Also which inks: K3, Piezography... etc... And finally the paper: I'd like to scan the negative and make contactsheets so basically i need a cheap paper to print contactsheets and a good one to make b&w fine art prints (ilford fiber silk??) and also one to make color prints. please help me with all you're knowledge, i'd really appreciate. thanks raf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Hi faffo99, Take a look here From Darkroom to Lightroom. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Mark Pope Posted May 21, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 21, 2009 Raf, the 2400 is a good printer, but it is expensive to run. When I looked into replacing our 2400, someone suggested I look at the Epson 3800. At first, I thought it made no sense, as it is a much more expensive printer. However, it has 80ml ink tanks, which last ages. We've made well over 200 A4 (9 inch by 6 inch image size) prints and plenty of A3 prints and only just changed one of the inks (IIRC Light Black). I did some sums to work out the point at which the additional cost of the new printer would be offset by savings on ink cartridges - by my reckoning it was about a year based on our current rate of printing. There's cost comparison for the Epson 3800 vs HPB 3180 on my blog. If you're interested, you can read it at The Monomagician Finally! A decision! If you have the space and can afford it, then I strongly recommend this printer. It also means that if you want to you can print up to A2. Something I want to try soon! Regards Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffo99 Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted May 21, 2009 hy mark, thanks for the reply...very interesting point! so the 3800 is almost 6 times more capacious then the 2400!! it would be very interesting to see the same comparison you made for the hp, with the 2400.. anyway, the 3800 costs almost the double of a 2400 . i never had an inkjet printer so i'm totally unaware of costs... i'm not going to use the printer often..just for contact sheets and small portable prints (4x6inches) and sometimes a well done fine art print... how much would be the expenses for me that i'm planning to make barely 15 prints (a4) per month? if i use it only for b&w, am i going to replace also the colors? or they're actually left untouched in the b&w printing process? sorry for the silly questions but i'm really a novice and don't know even how much money a cartridge costs.. finally, what about inks? (do you suggest the basic k3 epson ones?) and what about fine art paper and cheap one for contact sheets? thank you so much for leading me by hand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierovitch Posted May 22, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 22, 2009 Try the Epson stylus 1410. It does A3, the dye based inks are stable enough for our lifespan. Dye based inks have better density absorb into the media with less surface finish problems and don't clog up the print head like pigment inks if left unused for a while. Pumping ink for head cleaning is an expensive exercise if a printer is used infrequently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted May 22, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 22, 2009 Epson store has refurb 3800 Pros on sale right now. Under 1K if I recall correctly. The 3800 Pro model comes with the 3800 Colorburst Rip. Big difference in performance and IQ compared to sending the same image to the 3800 via Photoshop. Plus with the rip, you can send a whole folder of images to the 3800 at the same time ... and go have dinner or let it work in the background while you do something else. The 3800 has auto switch over to matte black cartridge. I still had the 2400 for many months after buying the 3800 ... no comparison in quality of prints ... probably more to do with the Rip than the printer. I have never had clogged jets on the 3800, even after sitting idle half the winter when I'm not printing weddings. I think all that is a thing of the past. Only drawback is that it cannot do roll papers ... so 22" is as wide as you can do. My reco for printing B&W scanned film is Crane's Museo Silver Rag ... terrific ink jet paper that looks so much like Zone VI Brilliant that it's scary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASpes Posted May 22, 2009 Share #6 Posted May 22, 2009 Hi guys, i love you all.After a long chemistry life i sold my loved darkroom. it was a real sorrow... ... And finally the paper: I'd like to scan the negative and make contactsheets so basically i need a cheap paper to print contactsheets and a good one to make b&w fine art prints (ilford fiber silk??) and also one to make color prints. ,,, raf Ciao Raffaele, guess your problem is more about the use you plan for your printer than on the printer itself, so maybe a first suggestion could be to outsource your print jobs to a pro lab in your area. In any case I fully agree with the other posters' suggestion about the Epson 3800, but that's a tough choice if you do not use it to its full power, this means print size and, maybe even more important, for a fair number of prints. Another point, minor one maybe but worth to mention, is that its size needs a suitable space for it to work. Btw some marketing hints point to the release of a new 3900, Epson has already done it with its bigger brothers, so my guess is that it's just a question of time, maybe before the end of the year. In practice this means two things, you might want to wait and invest in the new one, or jump on the clearance prices that will be offered close to the change. Just do not hold your breath on this ... Now, besides the 2400/2880 in the Epson line there are a couple other choices that could suit you. The older R800, A4 only, and the more recent R1900, A3+, whose results are IMO at least as good as those from the 2400, but it has a cheaper price tag and uses a newer ink type. In any case I suggest you do not look just to the starting price but also to the working cost, just as an example switching the black cartridge for glossy vs matte paper can be expensive, or the cartridge size, the bigger the cheaper, but you're expected to use in a reasonable time, otherwise you're likely to waste it. As for contacts, you could use a plain paper with a high white point, see the Epson paper range, but I'm not sure you will need them, as a (calibrated) monitor is nowadays a much better way to evaluate your pictures. Your darkroom habits will eventually shift to digital also on this one. All in all, given what you say, my suggestion goes to the R1900. Have a look at it on the Epson site. Hope this helps. Btw, had a look at your site ... to say it's good is just a plain understatement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffo99 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted May 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) "Grazie ASpes, sei molto gentile, riguardo al sito" i'm in total confusion... too much things to consider , to much choices to make. while one suggests one printer, someone else throws me other options..... aaaaaaaargh!! as for the R1900 i see it is not compatible with K3 inks.... i saw a Nachtwey exhibition with prints made by epson printers and k3 inks and they looked awesome... watch the video here : Epson Focal Points: James Nachtwey -- Epson America, Inc. the point is that i'm not going to use the printer as a lab would do....not gonna print everyday!! neither every week! but when i want to use it , i need a perfect quality... it is like i want to replace the darkroom with my eizo calibrated monitors, apple computers, nikon scanner and epson printer.. i wanna be able to do fiber based inkjet prints bymiself and not outsource'em to a lab.. (in that case i'll better refer to a traditional darkroom lab) so confused...dunno what to write!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orni100 Posted May 22, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 22, 2009 You know what, Raffaelo, I am tempted to advise you "stick with your darkroom". You will have to probably undergo a very long, time- and money-consuming learning curve, before you will get excellent prints according to what you are used from your darkroom. And also costs shall not be put aside - monitor, scanner, printer, monitor-, scanner- and printercalibration software, and so on and so on..... I am afraid, there is no easy solution for you. I can just say from my experience; if you think you are better off with digital processing regarding your prints, you well might be mistaken. Regards Dieter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 22, 2009 Share #9 Posted May 22, 2009 Indeed, your site has some wonderful images. I can relate to your dilemma...although only you can determine the solution. For what it's worth, I also recently made the transition from darkroom to lightroom. Only I went a step further since I decided not to put a darkroom in my new residence. So, I went from all film cameras and processing to all digital...no scanning. I posted often on this site as a newbie to get opinions on all kinds of things...very helpful, but not surprisingly, got varied and sometimes conflicting opinions. Before I made the "digital leap," I had to decide if the learning curve would be worth it. After all, it took years to decide on the best way to achieve wonderful (sometimes) darkroom prints. But, I have more time now to invest, and embraced the attitude that the learning would be fun. But...beware...the digital world seems to move exponentially faster than the old film world...equipment, software, etc. Relating to your issue, I settled on an Epson 3800 with Epson inks. Fortunately, I have a good friend nearby who has both this setup as well as an older Epson with Cone ink set. Frankly, without his advice and knowledge about my particular needs, I'd be as confused as you. Deciding on the equipment was hard enough...then there's learning all the tricks to get the most out of it. Creating the best "file" to send to the printer is as important as the printer itself. And, deciding what papers work best. And....etc., etc. Just think about your current working methods...then imagine reading a bunch of forums where people post tons of ideas and suggestions to people new to the medium. I'm sure you'd roll your eyes at some of them, and nod affirmatively at others. You could do this because you've long since gained the experience to know what works and what doesn't for you. So, long winded way of saying that I think you'll get to where you want, but not before and unless you are willing to invest time (and money ) in a whole new learning curve...with some experimentation along the way. At least you apparently already have what can't be bought...a good photographic eye. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffo99 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted May 22, 2009 WOW thanks Jeff! Anyway, i'll stick with film till it die... my experience has beeen the opposite of yours... Shooting digital, i've never accieved a good picture...i keep shooting thousand and thousand of images but never get a good one...while in a roll of 36 frames i get 20-25 good shots... so in terms of costs, IF it's true that digital desn't have any cost fo developing, it is ALSO true that to me it has a really big cost in terms of archieving and managing images... you need always more and more space, more and more HDs, more and more RAID systems in order to keep safely the images, more and more money to replace the digital equipment which lasts nothing compared to the analogic ... so i'll keep shooting films and scan them as i already do. i'm not new to the digital world, i know how a file has to be, and how to reach standards for a good digital print, i can work on photoshop as good as in darkroom...no problem. i have a 5d2 for job works...and is a real pain to shoot and to store the tons of images i get from it...i hate it!! but it is good for job...you know. the point now is not TO SWITCH or NOT TO SWITCH.... it is , which digital equipment will bestly replace my 3000 euros darkroom?? help!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertje Posted May 24, 2009 Share #11 Posted May 24, 2009 Hello Rafaele, As far as I know, inkjetprinters have rather sort lifetime. Most of the time they died a fiew months after guarantee time. To buy a new set of ink cost a fortune. So you make a big step to say goodbye to your darkroom and jump into digital. Do as I do. Working with Lightroom and send your work to a good/pro lab. I have very good result B/W printed on Fuji paper. Goodluck and cusses with the discision you make. Regards Bert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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