MattLain Posted May 17, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't know if this has been brought up already but I've found this 'summicron prototype' Can anyone tell me more about it, specifically why it was done!? Schouten Select Cameras & Accessories! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Hi MattLain, Take a look here cron/lux prototype. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted May 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 17, 2009 Interesting prototype: its style of numbering is classical of Canada prototypes : Lager, in his book on lenses, displays some items wit this "CXXX" engravings, and, among others, a Summicron 35 "380-023" someway similar to this (not identical, of course: I think is difficult to find IDENTICAL prototypes, by definition). These lenses were made during the development process of lenses, some of which never went into production, or anyway not with the look of the prototype: the engravings can refer also to a specific, not definitive, glass formula; "CXXX" coded prototype-test lenses were also made for the special-military lenses developed in Ontario, like the Elcan 50 f2. Schouten is a very reknown dealer and there is no reason to think of a fake: the requested price is high but not obscene for a collector who likes thes kind of very special items. It would be interesting to give a DATE to this prototype... Summilux 35 (a Canada design) was developed in 1959-60... the Summicron dates back to 1958... this could be a tentative to issue the Summicron with a mount with much machining in common with the Summilux: the 2nd design Summicron dates to 1969... can be a "round 1965" prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkie Posted May 17, 2009 Share #3 Posted May 17, 2009 Marco is still floggin proto's.. Get a proto worth its salt like a 1st series M. Now that is museum quality worth a penny. these lens "prototypes" aren't worth their value. anyone buying one of these should get provenance or get it inspected by Lars/Lager. These would not be that hard to fake if you know what you're doing. Thats all I'll say on the subject Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 17, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 17, 2009 Marco is still floggin proto's.. Get a proto worth its salt like a 1st series M. Now that is museum quality worth a penny. these lens "prototypes" aren't worth their value. anyone buying one of these should get provenance or get it inspected by Lars/Lager. These would not be that hard to fake if you know what you're doing. Thats all I'll say on the subject That is true : it COULD be a fake but I tend to think it is not : 1) Any collector specialized in protos surely is rather acknowledged to get good infos/inspection for such items... it's a very tight market : a "normal" collector like me simply does not buy such things... and moreover people that simply looks for used items. 2) Given the strict specialization of the market, I doubt that Schouten would risk to try to put a fake for sale: its credibility should suffer definitively in such a limited group of peoples. 3) Would it be worth ? Let's make some computations, simply... you must start from a original black Summilux (indeed, the "meters above feet" are Lux-typical, not Cron's), probably you have to dismount and make some well made "obliterations" - "re-machining", "fill with paint" etc... everything really WELL DONE to make a credible item: a significant labour cost, even if made in some Eastern Europe lab (like the ones who make the well known "Leica 250 fakes") : is the final margin worth the risk, at the proposed price ? I doubt. I do not intend to say that the price is "right" : this is a case in which is impossible to define a "mean correct price" ... all of us know, for instance, that a Summilux 35 black CAN NOT be sold for, say, 2000 Euros even if is A/B conditions... but prototypes are "one shot" deals... for which the only references are auction prices of similar, but never SAME, items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkie Posted May 17, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 17, 2009 i'm not saying the one on marco's site is fake. but i know some of the best leica techs in the business and all manner of leica "collectibles", "prototypes" and "rarities" can be faked. Engravings and all. A 4,000 Euro fake is easier to pass off than a 40,000 Euro one. If you knew the truth you'd be very surprised. Some of the fakes are SO good, that they have even been known to fool the well heeled Leica experts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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