M8: banding/0.68 finder/saturation — buy or wait?

[eronald]

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The M8 is a definite win as a camera design. Beautiful conversion from the classic M series to a digital camera.

 

This camera should bring pros back to the Leica brand. But the banding issue needs to be fixed, it's an image quality issue and people who are willing to pay Leica body and lens prices deserve to get Leica quality.

 

Edmund

[gdewitt]

Hi Gary, I don't know if you've used a rangefinder before, but many people find it a very different experience to using an SLR, and it isn't always easy to adapt to at first.

 

Personally I had no problems, in fact I loved it from the very start, but other people have realised that a rangefinder isn't for them and gone back to an SLR. Both viewpoints are valid, it comes down to personal preference, but there is a fundamental difference in practice between the two.

 

I understand your distaste for the auto everything route that modern SLRs have taken, but there's no need to use the options if you don't want to. I use Leica manual focus lenses on my Canon 5D and the only camera parameters I change on a regular basis are the ISO speed and exposure compensation - I tend to shoot aperture priority or manual.

 

First camera was a Zeiss Ikon in about 1970 and I currently own an M4-P along with a small mound of other cameras. For most of what I do I find the difference between an RF and an SLR is no big deal and switching back and forth is no problem. BTW, when it comes right down to it my favorite camera is a my 6x9 Ebony, but it isn't practical for digital.

 

It just bugs me when somebody says an SLR and an RF shouldn't be compared as it is an apples and oranges comparison. Sorry, it just doesn't seem that way to me, FWIW.

[clayh]

I agree with you that it is a very nice intuitive design. Believe me, I am very pleased. I just am trying to find out where weaknesses may exist so I can avoid situations that make them evident. I do think the banding is something they will need to address, however.

The M8 is a definite win as a camera design. Beautiful conversion from the classic M series to a digital camera.

 

This camera should bring pros back to the Leica brand. But the banding issue needs to be fixed, it's an image quality issue and people who are willing to pay Leica body and lens prices deserve to get Leica quality.

 

Edmund

[gdewitt]

Well I hope that the "more important issue for me" is the compactness and weight issue. That's the major advantage of the rangefinder format for me at least. Peering thru the rangefinder window as an aesthetic experience rates pretty low as a reason for preferring the rangefinder format. I expect the M8 to perform as well as the full frame Canons at 640 ISO but at half the kit weight. Plus I can use all the cool M mount glass produced in the last half century.

 

Rex

 

Compactness, weight, user interface, ruggedness, lenses and their feel (I abhor the feel of plastic AF lenses), usable DOF marks, the list goes on.

 

I suspect you and I are the only two here who don't care one way or the other about the viewfinder. I have mixed feelings so it just doesn't matter much to me.

[rvaubel]

Compactness, weight, user interface, ruggedness, lenses and their feel (I abhor the feel of plastic AF lenses), usable DOF marks, the list goes on.

 

I suspect you and I are the only two here who don't care one way or the other about the viewfinder. I have mixed feelings so it just doesn't matter much to me.

 

Actually I have grown somewhat fond of the little window. It has changed my perspective to a certain extent. But all and all, its the other factors (including non-plastic, non-gimmicky hardware) that are the decisive element.

 

Rex

[stunsworth]

First camera was a Zeiss Ikon in about 1970 and I currently own an M4-P along with a small mound of other cameras. For most of what I do I find the difference between an RF and an SLR is no big deal and switching back and forth is no problem.

Gerry, for you obviously the type of camera isn't an issue. Sometimes not knowing people's background can make generalisations difficult :-)

 

But inspte of how easy ome of us swop from one camera to the other, there are others who find it more difficult.

 

As for the M8 v 5D question, my personal opinion is that from a technical point of view the M8 will be no better than the 5D. If the M8 is as good as the 5D I will be happy when mine arrives.

[sean_reid]

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Will the finder be a "must" with the 50mm lens? I ask because the last thing I want to do is clutter up the camera with that contraption.

 

No, it is not a must.

 

Cheers,

[Rona!d]

To make one thing clear, i take the banding-problem serious but never experienced it at my own pictures i selected for printing. Have to examine the other shots now.

[Guest malland]

All this has been interesting, but I do think people are agonizing a bit too much about the banding because it obviously something that will be fixed and it occurs under certain obvious conditions: as Sean has stated he found very little of it in his testing. It makes me bit sorry that I wrote about this in my original posting as a reason for hesitating, or waiting, before buying an M8. If I were getting an M8 I would not worry about this.

 

My concerns are really aesthetic, as Victor stated above: I don't want an "exquisite" medium format image quality because I like the "35mm aesthetic", particulalrly for the photographs that I want to produce now. As a result, I'll probably for a while stick with my GR-D and also shoot with my M6s to get the film-look that I want.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

[Kirk]

Mitch... Loved the Bangkok series!

Great! Great! Great!

[sdai]

I'm starting to feel somewhat lucky because I had to come to Frankfurt in a rush so ... I can call my dealer and let him pass the camera reserved for me to the next tester or reviewer in line - before I could worry about the 8/16 bit thing again.

[Guest malland]

Mitch... Loved the Bangkok series!

Great! Great! Great!

 

Thanks, Kirk.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/sets/72157594271568487/

[clayh]

Hey Mitch,

 

I like your new GR-D work, and I certainly understand what you mean about losing that 'grit'. But I have been playing around tonight with the M8 set at ISO2500 and using the JFI profiles, and I am getting some very film-like results. I would not dismiss the M8 from consideration. I think it can be used to give you some very similar results as you are getting from the Ricoh, with the added convenience of interchangable lenses.

 

If you see Peter, say hi. I think you may have found your 'point of departure' with your Bangkok project. ;^) Keep up the good work.

 

cheers

 

Clay

[Guest malland]

Clay:

 

Nice to hear from you. No, I haven't ruled out the M8, but shooting at ISO2500, effectively 3200 as Sean Read has measured, is somewhat limiting, if I want to have subject blur for example. I haven't ruled out the M8 but shall probably wait for a while, although I'm not that eager to scan and spot film coming out of my M6s, but they do produce a "film look."

 

Peter is up to his neck in a year-end rush to finish a film.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

[clayh]

Well Mitch, you know the saying 'Don't fix it if it isn't broke'. Well, your current work with the Ricoh certainly is not 'broke'. I think adding a new factor to your mix might well get in the way of what you are doing. Keep up the great work.

 

Cheers,

 

Clay

[Lucien Richter]

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[Asher Kelman]

[quote name=malland

My concerns are really aesthetic' date=' as Victor stated above: I don't want an "exquisite" medium format image quality because I like the "35mm aesthetic", particulalrly for the photographs that I want to produce now. As a result, I'll probably for a while stick with my GR-D and also shoot with my M6s to get the film-look that I want.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

Mitch there are a number of your B&W shots with the GR-D that I really find impressive, especially people in an isolated environment.

 

The character of these pictures is so enhanced by related to the character of the GR-D's sketchy, soft, rough output. Some of these images have particular impact.

 

I like the pictures in Sean reviews, which look as as real as fruit in a bowl 10" from me! It's worth signing with http://www.reidreviews.com just for this review on the M8.

 

However, M8 files have a new esthetic. The low ISO shots look to me 3D with wonderful toning and as one goes higher, the noise, like that on the GR-D is fine for my tastes. I'd not remove much of it.

 

To me, the place for the M8 camera would allow me to use the finest lenses and present a low profile to take pictures social events and for street shooting without being like a stone dropped into water and disrupting the environment.

 

To do the same with a 5D, I need to carry my more bulky Distagon lenses and the focus, (even with my Brightscreen split focus) is slower to focus than the M7 and the M8.

 

For travel, the M8 can be packed in far less space. A 5D or even the lightweight Canon Xti with a 700-200 40.0 IS then deals with most the longer needs. All this in a very light compact space for two cameras!

 

So for me the M8 is for intimacy and the Canon is for the strutting ladies and humming birds.

 

See what Rainer had done with his GR-D in Venice. This is work from a meticulous German landscape photographer!

 

Rainer Travel Photography Article Now Online! - Open Photography Forums

 

I took some flack for highlighting his work! However, I’m unrepentant. There's a huge mistake following the herd in artistic taste. People seem to all make waterfalls and streams a blurry mess with slow shutters, pictures get curved and sharpened, over saturated so they attack you from the screen. It's as if everything needs to be covered with polyurethane or varnish and all dirt removed for some important army inspection.

 

One needs the confidence to use the paintbrush that works for the job. Sean talks of the lens drawing the image. I think that is a great term and it gets more to esthetics than anything else. If one's pictures succeed with the GR-D then that is what is needed.

 

Now maybe the M8 will do the same at higher ISO, but so what?

 

Trouble is, and I feel the same, is that the M8 is so beautiful, that once you handle it, take a picture and look at the output, the little gem hooks you!

 

Now one has to find out why you must have it!

 

Mitch, I'd think of shooting social events, one per month. That should both pay for it and make you feel you were rational!

 

BTW, B&H has been shipping M8s as of this morning.

 

Asher

 

The Open Photography Forums Initiative

[Guest malland]

Asher:

Mitch there are a number of your B&W shots with the GR-D that I really find impressive, especially people in an isolated environment.

The character of these pictures is so enhanced by related to the character of the GR-D's sketchy, soft, rough output. Some of these images have particular impact.

Thanks for the kind comments.

 

I like the pictures in Sean reviews, which look as as real as fruit in a bowl 10" from me! It's worth signing with http://www.reidreviews.com just for this review on the M8.

I am a subscriber. Sean writes well and is interested in more than just equipment: his article on street photography is very good.

 

See what Rainer had done with his GR-D in Venice. This is work from a meticulous German landscape photographer!

 

Rainer Travel Photography Article Now Online! - Open Photography Forums

I just looked and like his pictures, but he uses a Ricoh Caplio GX8, not a GR-D, which has a zoom lens and probably lower image quality than the GR-D. No equipment obsession there.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

[Asher Kelman]

Asher:

 

Thanks for the kind comments...........

 

I just looked and like his pictures, but he uses a Ricoh Caplio GX8, not a GR-D, which has a zoom lens and probably lower image quality than the GR-D. No equipment obsession there.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

 

See what happens when one looks at your pictures! Spaced out!!! (red face).

 

The appearance he presents comes not so much from the inherent lower quality of the camera, rather he uses a slow shutter speed to blur. This is his style.

 

I like your own style and am really interested in some of your work. Will you be doing more or you use it only when you travel?

 

Asher

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest malland]

I like your own style and am really interested in some of your work. Will you be doing more or you use it only when you travel?

Asher:

 

Thanks. I live in Bangkok and am continuing with the series that I've been shooting for a book project called "Bangkok Hysteria©". I made a dummy of the book from 58 photos taken with the Leica-M and now have another 56 taken with the Ricoh GR-D. The total of 114 needs some rigourous editing, and I'm now trying to do to weed out the weaker pictures and rethink the sequencing.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/